Received: from PCH.mit.edu (18.7.21.50) by mail.efplus.com (192.168.0.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.485.1; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 11:35:45 -0700 Received: from PCH.MIT.EDU (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by PCH.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.8) with ESMTP id 17DIPegV006421; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:26:03 -0400 Received: from outgoing-exchange-1.mit.edu (OUTGOING-EXCHANGE-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.15]) by PCH.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.8) with ESMTP id 17DIPdFw006399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:25:39 -0400 Received: from w92exedge3.exchange.mit.edu (W92EXEDGE3.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.7.73.15]) by outgoing-exchange-1.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 17DIPWvP002407 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:25:39 -0400 Received: from oc11expo17.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.48) by w92exedge3.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.73.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:25:15 -0400 Received: from w92exhyb2.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.71.32) by oc11expo17.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:25:19 -0400 Received: from NAM04-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.74.48) by w92exhyb2.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.71.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.23 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 14:25:21 -0400 Received: from MW4P223CA0026.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:303:80::31) by MWHPR0101MB3200.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10b6:301:36::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4415.13; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:25:19 +0000 Received: from CO1NAM11FT028.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:80:cafe::85) by MW4P223CA0026.outlook.office365.com (2603:10b6:303:80::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4415.14 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:25:19 +0000 Received: from mail-qk1-f173.google.com (209.85.222.173) by CO1NAM11FT028.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.13.175.214) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4415.14 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 18:25:19 +0000 Received: by mail-qk1-f173.google.com with SMTP id y130so11797555qkb.6 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 11:25:19 -0700 (PDT) From: David C Brown To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Sender: "piclist-bounces@mit.edu" Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 11:25:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [OT]:: Australian example of real world cost of replacing coal power stations with Wind Power + Pumped hydro storage. Thread-Topic: [OT]:: Australian example of real world cost of replacing coal power stations with Wind Power + Pumped hydro storage. Thread-Index: AdeQcggWtKbXr90hQyyQUnPgUYR5cw== Message-ID: References: <20210813183252.624ffe07@raspberry> List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , In-Reply-To: Reply-To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: TS500.efplus4.local X-MS-Has-Attach: X-Auto-Response-Suppress: All X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SenderIdResult: Pass X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PRD: mit.edu X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: received-spf: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.222.173 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=209.85.222.173; helo=mail-qk1-f173.google.com; dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YmCcmK18X/D6cCVCoG+OxJm7BrUABx2yiI6mzRB0ZzE=; b=aUeUTeJ9IXIet3M9xM1K3+/b0cRbAa8ASJFAPiwxOmteywEFN6KC+BkZ2ng55zPI2x 94QZ08oEm2sq0NbFn6GhzcXxj79kLJMUKyZ/rVfhfyq0Rd+keYBf8DQJ25IHR36MJ9+V jyAGvXs5GNhBoMB1VXukdN1i6eRYqbfjzIu1Q9QsJ7k78r7JxxLkzAW+GtKE2wd8RJSV sn6QgH/J2NLMQ+Xfrx1lWkaCbtzzFbXVu5457KYg3gDmfgFOfN9J1TomGzmCRqwJXej8 HL9bM0nxiPlJ9YJzH/pfXotfmYfnmZkI7zg83397IZl3lqXDfAiwEV6CrnU1SSNc0pqV zS0Q== authentication-results: spf=pass (sender IP is 209.85.222.173) smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; mit.edu; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=gmail.com; mit.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=gmail.com; errors-to: piclist-bounces@mit.edu list-id: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." list-post: x-beenthere: piclist@mit.edu x-mailman-version: 2.1.6 x-received: by 2002:a37:410:: with SMTP id 16mr3570488qke.364.1628879118781; Fri, 13 Aug 2021 11:25:18 -0700 (PDT) x-topics: [OT] x-content-filtered-by: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 "at great cost" is the caveat there. If climate change is not real then implementing policies - expensive policies - to mitigate it would be politically disastrous. There are already complaints of the cost of dealing with climate change even from non deniers. It seems that the majority of people want to do something about climate changes, but nothing that causes them inconvenience or expense. I think Private Fraser was correct ::-( __________________________________________ David C Brown 43 Bings Road Whaley Bridge High Peak Phone: 01663 733236 Derbyshire eMail: dcb.home@gmail.com SK23 7ND web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb *Sent from my etch-a-sketch* On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 19:02, Clint Jay wrote: > I guess it depends if you believe climate change is real or not. > > If it is then it seems churlish to bicker over the cost of green > technologies, if it's not then we will have improved the planet at great > cost and reduced our reliance on non renewable energy sources making our > energy future more secure. > > I don't really see either as a bad outcome > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021, 18:35 Alan Pearce, > wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 00:22:16 +1200 > > RussellMc wrote: > > > > > I thought the following was technically interesting enough to be wort= h > > > noting. > > > The article is on a site which is much disapproved on by some due to > > > its questioning of the current climate change message. > > ... > > > > > > The article page may be a little hard to follow but does make sense. > > > The related web page where the data comes from is somewhat hard to > > > extract good information from but is the source of the analysis. > > > Article <- read me first > > > > > > https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/12/energy-storage-an-estimate-using-a= ctual-data/ > > > Source data https://www.spasmodicenergy.com/Pages/Home.aspx > > > > > > Russell > > > > Interesting read, although reading through the comments there still > > seems to be sceptics on the numbers. I didn't really try to decide if > > the sceptics were for or against the principles of the article though. > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > View/change your membership options at > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .