Sounds like a lawyer's paradise. Well, life ain't simple, is it... ... On 3/18/19, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:43:24PM +1300, RussellMc wrote: >> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 12:05, James Cameron wrote: >> >> > I think by focusing on insolation, Russell has misunderstood my point. >> >> Not really, but I did add some more consumer relevant points as >> well. Panel angle and snow and annual insolation and a bit more are >> still relevant commercially. >> >> I doubt that we disagree greatly if at all. > > I guess my disagreement also comes down to my trying to help Allen > understand how best to address his concerns of deforestation and loss > of farmland. These are real concerns, and a focus on consumer solar > misses the point or redirects the discussion. My suggestion to Allen > and his daughter and friend is to focus on the economic business case, > because the people making the decisions are doing so based on that. > Focus on actions that affect the business case, such as lobbying, > gating, boycotts, insistence on transparency, examination of public > records, etc. > > However, I'll comment on the consumer solar issues. ;-) > >> > What matters most for a given location is the spot price into the >> > network, the cost of extending the network, and how the price varies >> > across the insolation curve. >> > >> > Here's a farm with the panels all facing west instead of solar >> > optimum. >> > >> > https://goo.gl/maps/CZ71fMiRjrs >> > >> Yes. I'm aware of the practice of skewing panel alignment to maximise >> something other than peak energy. >> (In a domestic context: In my nephew's 10 kW array he has panels set to >> Winter maximum to maximise winter energy without panel angle changes. >> >> And but >> >> > Here's their spot price per megawatt by scheduled demand >> > >> > >> > https://aemo.com.au/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-d= ashboard >> >> 30 min spot price currently 102.73/MWh - was about $98 when I first >> looked >> some hours ago. >> That's $0.10273/kWh - which may be OK for wholesale rates but would not >> make a residential customer aiming to achieve system payback very >> happy. > > Here, residential customers are not exposed to this market directly. > > They are paid either $AUD 0.08/kWh if they do nothing, or if they can > be bothered to ask up to about $AUD 0.20/kWh at the same time as > paying a greater per-day service charge. They are also export limited > to 10 kW, or 5 Kw in remote areas. > >> Odds are that on some evenings they get MUCH more than that. > > Yes, the spot price easily jumps to the maximum $AUD 10000/kWh during hea= t > waves or when a thermal generator is on scheduled maintenance. Gas > turbines are spun up. Load shedding has happened this past summer. > >> For a residential owner my prior suggested criteria of " >> ... generous feed-in arrangements (or full grid replacement output) >> ..." still seem OK. Feed in rates are often very low compared to >> cost of units residentially. Whereas if you can use panel-power >> when you would otherwise be using grid power then every unit 'pays >> you' at grid rates. >> >> At residential rates per unit a cost effective system may break even >> in an acceptable time frame. >> I'd be interested in knowing what the payback period is for your >> system. > > My system is a mix of business continuity insurance and increased > building cooling capacity. No payback planned. > >> For commercial suppliers, if $0.18/kWh was the best they got I'd be >> surprised if it was a good investment. I may be wrong. > > Commercial farms get the spot price if they bid into the market > successfully. > > [...] > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.netrek.org/ > -- > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .