On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 08:15 AB Pearce - UKRI STFC A large number of them with Olin telling people to do due engineering > diligence ... :) > Is that what he was saying? I don't recall it coming out quite like that. ;) That said, I really miss all the "discussion" that defined the pic list family of members. It really was a family, with associated dysfunction. ;) I'm including the emoticons for those that may see my post and not understand that I'm just kidding around. I learned so much from this list, and I'd have really missed out had I not found it. I have to admit that I do little PIC programming these days, I tend to write C code and test using the Arduino environment. My chips of choice these days are either an ATMega328 or some kind of 32 bit ARM when I need more power. As painful as it all was back in the early 2000s, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Arduino is convenient, but nothing kick-starts an education like having to solder up a programmer, read and decipher the datasheets, write assembler bit banging serial comms, and flash the result using mplab. The real education comes when you apply power and nothing happens. I'm truly glad that the Arduino environment exists, because it's opened the doors for so many kids to get started with this stuff. The downside is that it's too easy to be spoiled by the vast number of prewritten libraries hiding what's really going on and a public forum willing to answer the most basic questions over and over. The one thing truly lacking in the Arduino world is an Olin that "encourages" people to try figuring things out on their own before throwing their hands up and running for help. He and I certainly had our differences, but I'm forever grateful for having had the opportunity to learn a few things from him. I hope he's doing well. > --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .