I'm helping a schoolkid use some 16F628A he was given. He'd found this programmer, which apparently works http://www.electronicecircuits.com/electronic-circuits/pic-programmer I can't figure out how it gets a differential between Vss and Vdd Leakage ? Joe ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4545/11923 - Release Date: 03/30/16 --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .