Can I just take a moment and appreciate how awesome this group is. Where else can you find a group of people that can have calm, rational, civilized, substantive discussion of the finer points of fastener nomenclature? (even when we are way out in the weeds of [OT] on a [PIC] tag) :-) Where I work, we usually default to McMaster Carr descriptions - even if we get the parts someplace else. It makes for a useful lingua franca. Black-Oxide Finish Pan Head Phillips Machine Screw, 18-8 Stainless Steel, 10-32 Thread, 1/2" Length is not ambiguous. -Denny --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .