Hard to fit the entire universe into little boxes, the (very, very) old Piclist with only PIC, EE, and OT made choosing a lot easier.=20 No biggie, more an observation of our perceptions than anything else.=20 I remember my first attempt at perpetual motion was when I was about 8 or 9 years old. So definitely it's engineering we could all "attempt" to do ourselves, even if it's not possible to accomplish it :) Friendly regards, Bob --=20 http://www.fastmail.com - Send your email first class --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .