Not only is this 18F and the Atmel FLASH far more powerful than an Arduino Nano, as Russell has already pointed out, but I was also specifying Priority Mail... I could use regular 1st class service, but frankly I'm too lazy to make or borrow or collect the packaging material. I like that Priority Mail provides the little flat rate boxes, I have a label printer all setup and it's easy. I could ship 2 of them pretty much all over the USA for under $2 if I wanted to. Which brings me to things I probably shouldn't say: Denny, I agree with you that the cost of operating in the USA is higher than in China. But it's not that much higher. Mostly, the difference is in the people, not the government or the economy (except inasmuch as the people make the economy). What hasn't been said is that the /fault/ lies both with America and with China... more exactly with the /people/ of America and the /people/ of China. Lot's can be said about bad choices in China... environmental destruction, toxic waste, oppression, etc... But the other side of it is just as true: Americans are fat, lazy, entitled, whiny assholes. Mostly... And I'm including myself in that list... damned if I'm not getting fatter every day... And we've already established lazy and asshole... let me work on whiny for a while: We have a ridiculously high standard of living, and we don't MAKE things the way we did, or work nearly as hard as we did or anyone else does. Then we bitch about it and blame it on "them" and our government and what ever. 'couldn't be US! :eyeroll: Products from China cost less because they work harder, longer, smarter, faster, and more economically. Don't like it? Get off your ass! Educate our kids and neighbors! Work harder. It has it's own value, work does. The only products I've found from China that were worse than ours, were that way because Americans are too stupid to read the datasheet and realize that the part's aren't being used as spec'd, but in a way that causes random, unexplained failures... which prompts idiots to... just by another one. It's brilliant marketing on the part of the Chinese. E.g.: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/stepper-motors-drives/139306-can-tb6560-drive= r-design-violate-chips-specs.html At the same time, Americans are killing themselves in record numbers (seriously, suicide has moved onto the top 10 list of how you will die) because they have no pride, no joy in life, no sense of self worth, and no inspiration to DO anything other than sit in front of a screen: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Especially kids: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pub/youth_suicide.html And then I went to a Maker Faire. And I saw the pride in a childs face after we taught them to solder up a little badge with a battery and some LEDs: http://www.makershed.com/products/learn-to-solder-skill-badge-kit Everywhere at those fairs, there are kids with that, "Damn, I can DO this shit" look on their faces. And I LOVE seeing it. But even from China, those kits cost money. The "glowie" project I proposed didn't get funded because the Instamorph costs more than a dollar per kid and that was too much. (!!!). Now... get this... It wasn't too much for someone to donate... they were going to charge and get paid back. It was too much for anyone to /finance/. No one would put up the up front for a bulk order. Including me! https://plus.google.com/+JamesNewton/posts/EnCxjWDaAk1 Parents in America say they love their kids. They love the /idea/ of kids... they love having someone else to push their lost dreams onto. If they /actually/ loved their kids, our schools would be fully funded and teachers would /actually/ be the highest paid profession in the country. http://www.nea.org/home/12661.htm So THAT's what this bit of junk is about. Trying to figure out how to find people, resources, information, plans to make use of free junk to let kids make something and get some pride for themselves. Because even when that Arduino clone from China costs next to nothing... NOTHING is what we have to give to our kids here. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/college-costs-median-income_n_3443= 806.html Please help? These are the classes I teach (have taught most several times now) absolutely free of charge for any group that can host. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MCt_CEaURexRgeMYPB68nIw6_xzjRYX0UisGbhu= WG0M/pub Pick one and teach it. Or help me develop a new class. Or develop your own class and share it. Or finance a class. SOMETHING. --=20 James Newton MassMind.org 1-970-462-7764 --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .