The die grinder method works fine. A TiG torch is faster; frequently much faster... Of course you have to a TIG torch... :) I was in the business of building cyl heads out of 4130, so it was'nt a big deal... :) --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .