I cheated - My "pipe wrench" was a 32mm socket (3/4" drive), 18" loa 3/4" drive handle, and a 4-foot length of high-pressure pipe. I've heard of people toppling vehicles off lifts with such leverage... --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .