I've been looking into buying a used 10-15 year old pick and place=20 system with feeders. I can buy a high performance and easy to use old machine for half the=20 cost of a new, low end, hard to use system... so that's what I plan on=20 doing. I don't really need anything better than 0402 and a good enough=20 vision system to do 0.8mm pitch BGAs at the moment... so the vintage I'm=20 looking at seems perfect. I'm familiar enough with these machines to at least think I have some=20 ideas how to make the part feeding significantly more efficient (at=20 least for low volume, high part swap situations). I'd like to put some=20 time into trying to create innovative component delivery systems.=20 (Custom feeders, trays, etc) What would really help for that would be a base machine that is either=20 open enough in specification or hackable enough to heavily modify. I'd=20 hate to have to throw out all the electronics and rebuild the machine in=20 a way I can use and maintain. Does anyone know of a specific brand that might fit what I'm looking=20 for? IE: Juki, Universal, Europlacer, etc? Darron --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .