On 12/10/2013 10:54 PM, Jesse Lackey wrote: > Hi all, I've been bitcoin enthused (obsessed) the last 4-5 months. > > The best ROI calculator I've seen is: > > > I've got 3 of the ASICminer "block erupter USB", they were $130ea when > bought, now next to worthless. They generate more BTC than the cost of > electricity to run them, but that's not saying much. > > They would have been a decent investment had I run them 24x7 immediately > upon getting them a few months ago. But I never bothered to get a rasp > pi going with them, and I'm not running my desktop 24x7 no matter what. > So I ran them 10x6 or thereabouts and they didn't make enuf BTC to pay > for themselves. Fun though, and that was the main point. > > Any purchase of mining hardware in the last 6 months would have paid > off, only because of the amazing ramp of BTC value in November, and you > would have made far more just buying BTC pre mid november instead of > mining hardware. Far more. > > Bitcoin is the most amazing piece of technology I've seen since iphone > 1.0. There's at least 5 things about it that are unprecedented and > would have been pretty marvelous by itself, but working in concert they > create a groundbreaking, potentially world-changing system all in maybe > 50K? 75K? lines of C. You can count on one hand the number of times > that's happened in the last 10 years. > > To clarify David's comment about solo mining - it is indeed race to > "solve" blocks, but it is truly (as far as everyone believes regarding > how bitcoin uses SHA-256) a random, lottery type situation as to who > "solves" the block. Each attempt ("hash") has an equal a chance as any > other to "solve" or "win" it. When a block is solved, your mining > software then spends a few milliseconds doing preparations on a new > block, and then you're back to trying hashes on it. It isn't as though > you can't solo mine because someone else will always win, or that "all > the work you did was wasted" (depends how you look at it, I suppose). > What it has become is that it takes, on average, quintillions of hashes > before you randomly find a winning one. Your hashes are just as good > and just as probable to win as anyone else's, but given how many are > needed (on average) to "solve" a block, millenia will pass before you're > a winner. > > As more hardware doing mining comes online, the "difficulty" of winning > automatically adjusts (approx every 2 weeks) to keep the overall rate of > "solving" blocks network-wide to 10 minutes. > > Hence pools... all the BTC I've mined (about 0.4) came about because of > payout from the pool I'm in ("Slush"), and most of it in the month after > I got them, because the difficulty has increased 20X since then. I've > never found a block. > > If you really must try to mine and make it worth doing, you'll have to > pre-order something and hope that they deliver on schedule and the > difficulty doesn't go even more exponential than you project. And that > the price of BTC does what you think in your projections into the > future. These are your parameters you can feed into the link at the top > and you can play with the numbers and what you think about the future. > Frankly the only people I see making $ mining are those who pre-ordered > new gear early (i.e. near the front of the line) from a place that > delivered in a timely manner. It is a race, and you have to be in the > leading half, not trailing half. > > There is also lots of fraud regarding mining hardware and "virtual > mining" etc. > > The bitcoin story is still in the first chapter. > J > > > > > > Nicholas Wagon wrote: >> My dinky 1GH/s gives me about 0.00074229 per day (gets less per day) - >> pretty useless but it's fun to see the numbers scroll on by - plus there= is >> flashing LEDs so what more can you want :-) >> >> My dodgy maths says 60GH/s works out to 0.0445374 per day, at "this minu= tes" >> exchange rate of $900 that's ~ $40 per day. >> You can try to "estimate" an ROI but of course the network speed is >> increasing at a crazy pace so every couple of days you will see your num= bers >> drop. >> >> http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator >> >> Go here and you can estimate some ROIs on some of the current/vapourware >> hardware, or laugh/cry when you plug in some numbers for some old gear. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf= Of >> David Robertson >> Sent: Monday, 9 December 2013 8:33 PM >> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. >> Subject: Re: [EE]: Bitcoin Mining >> >>> He shows a log that shows 12 BCs accepted on December 3rd. He does not >>> say >> over what period these were 'mined'. >> >> Firstly, it's not possible to mine in advance and then submit blocks to = the >> network at a later date. Each block contains a reference to the previous >> one, so if they aren't submitted, later blocks don't build on top of the= m. >> The transactions contained in any blocks mined this way would basically = be >> returned to the pool of unconfirmed transactions (really, they never >> actually left). >> >> Second, those aren't bitcoins themselves in that log, they are "shares". >> It's infeasible to mine solo these days, because other people will almos= t >> always be able to solve their block before you. This race against the re= st >> of the network is essential to the security of the currency. Anyway, the= re >> are several mining pools, where a central server splits the necessary >> computations between many connected clients. This means the solution to = a >> block can be found much more quickly due to the huge combined power of a= ll >> of the miners in the pool. The miners are rewarded using some method rel= ated >> to the amount of computational work they have given the pool, even if th= ey >> did not find a block solution themselves (profit is split among >> miners) - resulting in a more steady income for miners. >> >> David. >> >> >> On 9 December 2013 09:38, RussellMc wrote: >> >>> The madness extends even unto the land of the dawn of the day >>> 60 gh/s BC engine: >>> >>> >>> http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/peripherals/other/auction-672024215 >>> .htm >>> >>> Note that >>> >>> Payment in Bitcoins accepted. >>> >>> $NZ3900 starting price has not met reserve. >>> >>> He shows a log that shows 12 BCs accepted on December 3rd. He does not >>> say over what period these were 'mined'. >>> >>> Any currency that varies in 'exchange rate' by 100:1 (or 100:1 or ...) >>> over a year or so is no doubt great fun to 'play' with,but liable to >>> be no haven for the risk averse. >>> >>> __________________________ >>> >>> He says: >>> >>> Bitcoin miner hashing at 60gh/s >>> Bitcoin price has gone up 1000%. >>> Get involve right now. >>> >>> The miner is in hand! >>> after you buy from someone in the states , IF it even arives in >>> working condition AND the duty and tax at customs if you are new to >>> BTC these units are very hard to come across, not sure if this is the >>> only one in the country or not if anyone wants to order from butterfly >>> labs, you will note receive it for a whole year, im still waiting on >>> other deliverys from over 9 months ago. >>> >>> This unit is working and anyone can come and see it running at my >>> house befor pickup if they choose to. >>> THIS UNIT RUNS BETWEEN 58.5-62.5 GH/S >>> I'm in no rush of selling this unit. It is making me good chunk of >>> bitcoins. >>> >>> Package includes: >>> 1 x BFL 60 GHS miner >>> 1 x BFL power supply >>> 1 x USD cord >>> >>> tags: bitcoin miner, Asic, BFL >>> >>> Payment with Bitcoins Accepted! >>> -- >>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>> View/change your membership options at >>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/ch= ange >> your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/picli= st >> Bitcoins are just another fiat currency that will shortly run out of gas and fail, just like the paper dollar will/is doing. No real wealth was ever accumulated using paper money, and none ever will, Bitcoins included. It is just another Ponzi scheme, like musical chairs, or casino gambling. In the glaring light of the failed world-wide banking system, the idea that ANOTHER fiat currency could gain popularity, simply boggles my fevered brow. Invest in something with a genuine return, such as a real education, land (in a country where one can actually OWN- not just rent- the land), gold dust or nuggets, platinum, or silver. Many good opportunities are being missed, and many are no longer possible in most Western countries, such as the USA. --Bob A -- The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary. VINCE LOMBARDI -- http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .