Thanks BAJ, Interesting thoughts. You are spot on about old hardware except you overestimated RAM, most of the machines are WIN XP with 512K. Bootloaders are a given and at present I am pursuing the ChipKIT bootloader and MPIDE. I have looked at other forms of BASIC and have a few installed for testing but so far the Arduino environment has generated most interest from the teachers. Interesting thoughts on FORTH, I have a copy of Lee Brodie Starting FORTH sitting on the shelf above my bench but never even considered it for this application. I will look into it further. Cheers and enjoy your vacation. Chris On 29 July 2013 15:20, Byron Jeff wrote: > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 12:43:45PM +0200, Chris Roper wrote: > > Looks interesting but I don't see anywhere to just download and try it > on > > an existing PIC32. > > It's not too terribly interesting. Embedded tokenized BASIC interpreters > have existed in various forms since the birth of microcomputers. Even on > the PIC the Basic Stamp was floating around 15 years ago. I've implemente= d > a couple of systems in this format. What I finally learned is that it can > be greatly simplified by changing the language. Specifically using the > FORTH language actually makes such systems doable in embedded systems > environments. > > > Pity as I am busy researching ways of introducing the PIC32 into > education > > in an easy and affordable way for 3rd world countries that don't have > large > > budgets. > > It depends quite a bit on the existing infrastructure as to how this can = be > done. The biggest problem is that embedded systems simply do not have > screens, keyboards, and mice to facilitate interfacing for development. > Bootloaders makes it pretty simple to dismiss the programming hardware on= a > per student basis, as long as the student has another machine to serve as > the interface. But there can be challenges if those machines are much old= er > and are unable to support current development environments, even if those > environments are free to use. > > So for the sake of argument, I'm going to presume that the interface > hardware can serve as a dumb terminal and nothing else. Think along the > lines of a throwaway (to us) PC with 1G of RAM running a pentium level CP= U. > > A FORTH environment is completely self hosted on the target. The interfac= e > hardware serves nothing more than a dumb terminal with possible external > file storage. A serial interface is used for development. > > A sample FORTH that could be thrown on a PIC32 in short order is pFORTH: > > http://www.softsynth.com/pforth/ > > Written in C, pFORTH can be easily adapted to embedded systems that have = no > more library support than send/receive a character. No filesystem, or > dynamic memory support is required. It's written in standard C, and > supports ANSI standard FORTH. > > I haven't tried it, but from the look of the reference manual it can be > compiled for a PIC32 after setting some compilation paramters, dropped on= to > a chip, connected to a interface machine via a serial interface, and serv= e > as a self hosted development target. > > Just my two cents. > > Quick Note: I'm on vacation and I have my vacation e-mail on. Please remo= ve > my E-mail from any replies. I'd hate to have my vacation program spam the > list. Thanks. > > BAJ > > > > > Cheers > > Chris > > > > > > > > On 29 July 2013 11:04, cdb wrote: > > > > > Resend - as it didn't seem to get through the first time. > > > > > > I've just been looking at the website www.byvac.com. In a similar wa= y > > > that > > > > > > > > > Muvium Java environment for Pic works, this is a an Interpreted > > > Basic/Compiled Function using a PIC32 called ByPic. The BASIC program > > > language being installed on the PIC itself. > > > > > > The Basic is held in RAM where via an editor it can be written and > compiled > > > > > > > > > to Flash RAM on the fly. They state that the PIC can run each > instruction > > > in 2.5us. > > > > > > Communication with the PIC is via a serial connection > > > > > > This means there is no writing code, simulate, program cycle. Most > hardware > > > > > > > > > functions are precompiled, so to access for example the ADC, you jus= t > type > > > > > > > > > > > > adc_init(channel_number) > > > x=3Dadc_get(channel_number) > > > > > > And your done, whilst in RAM you can make as many alterations to your > code > > > and test it out in PIC, once all is OK you then flash it to flash > memory. > > > > > > It is aimed at beginners and naturally they have their own Arduino > style > > > development boards. > > > > > > Looks interesting. > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > -- > > > cdb, on 28/07/2013 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > > View/change your membership options at > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > View/change your membership options at > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > -- > Byron A. Jeff > Chair: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences > Clayton State University > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff > -- > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .