Lots of good advice has already been given. Can't say any of it is "wrong", but for my money a twelve year old needs "steered". It's a safe bet that when he says "game programming" he's probably thinking Quake/Unreal/Half-Life/etc... I might push him towards tic-tac-toe or pong. Preferably with little or no library or engine behind the scenes. And at that point, use the VBA environment behind Word or Excel. -Denny --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .