The problem I am having has nothing to do with the age of these PIC's but relates to how modern documentation is done. As a computer user who is blind, I actually do a lot of the same things anybody else does which is to download the PDF of the respective data sheet, use a PDF reader, and read the specifications which help one decide how to program the PIC, which port would be best for the job and how to use the resources. While the diagrams of the various modules are useful, they are not essential as long as one understands what they do. You either use it or make sure it is off, etc. The one diagram, however, which is absolutely a show-stopper if gotten wrong is the pin-out. After all, you get VCC and ground mixed up, you'v got smoke or at least a ruined chip. When I read the pin-outs, it all comes out screwy, to use a scholarly term, and I haven't figured out any fool-proof way to unscramble the puzzle. Here's how the pin-out for the PIC16F628 DIP package came out: PIC16F627A/628A/648A Pin Diagrams PDIP, SOIC RA2/AN2/VREF RA3/AN3/CMP1 RA4/T0CKI/CMP2 RA5/MCLR/VPP VSS RB0/INT RB1/RX/DT= RB2/TX/CK RB3/CCP1 1 PIC16F627A/628A/648A 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 27A/628A/648A 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 RA1/AN1 RA0/AN0 RA7/OSC1/CLKIN RA6/OSC2/CLKOUT VDD RB7/T1OSI/PGD RB6/T1OSO/= T1CKI/PGC RB5 RB4/PGM RA1/AN1 RA0/AN0 RA7/OSC1/CLKIN RA6/OSC2/CLKOUT VDD VDD RB7/T1OSI/PGD RB6/T1= OSO/T1CKI/PGC RB5 RB4/PGM That is from 40044f.pdf and appears just before Page 1. Does anyone know of any text-based documentation anywhere that might list these such that one can make heads or tails of the mess? Something like 9 GND 18 VCC would work just fine. I even read this on a Macintosh using preview and it came out a little better than the Linux pdf reader named pdftotext, but it still did not give anything one could trust. As you can see in the example, the ASCII text is recoverable and I have no trouble reading it, but the formatting and order is lost so I don't even sort of trust what goes where. I even read the header files for the 16F628 and 12C58JW parts to see if somebody had stuck somethin in there, but no such luck. For now, I need the pin-outs for those two specific PIC's, but the best solution is to find a way to get this information that doesn't waste other people's time so I am open for suggestions. I think back about ten years ago when I first got in to PIC's, it was fighting the documentation battle that made me get side-tracked and start doing other things. The one PIC I did program was a 16F84 and it worked exactly as it should. A whole breadboard full of TTL logic shrank in to one little chip. Anyway, thanks for any help as the rest of what I need to do is just program the chips and stick them in to the projects I have for them. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ --=20 http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .