As it seems to fit inside the interesting and expanding subject envelope :-) - Long long ago in another lifetime I got moderately good at clutchless "double declutch" gear changing in a manual. Some thing like - blip throttle under power and ease out of gear as drive train passes from powering through neutral loading into overrun. Once in neutral blip engine to bring countershaft to correct revs for next gear and put into gear at "correct" moment. Very rapid when you get it right. Potentially noisy when you get it wrong. Not something you want to remain bad at doing for long in a vehicle that you value. Brief thought suggests you need synchromesh to do this to get countershaft spinup - would have to think about that. I'm fairly certain that if I tried to do this now I'd find that it was not like a riding-a-bicycle experience and that the skill had long since evaporated. Can be very non musical if you get it wrong. Russell --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .