I don't know about either DipTrace or Altium but I can recommend another=20 package: Designspark from RSComponents. It is free, does schematics, pcb la= yout=20 (obviously!), a limited 3D view of the board, manufacturing plot outputs=20 (gerber, penplot or PDF) and has spice simulation outputs. It is supposed t= o be=20 a community thing where people submit their designs and libraries. There ar= e=20 quite a lot of components (schematic symbols and pcb footprints) in the=20 supplied libraries but it is quite hard to find what you are looking for an= d=20 since it comes from different sources, standards vary. I ended up doing my = own=20 component library. It is quite easy once you get the hang of it and now I o= nly=20 need to do a couple of new symbols for every new design I do. I most of the time end up doing a special version of the schematic symbol f= or=20 more complex component for each design, that just fits the schematic for th= at=20 design. I have not used buses (which has very limited support) or multishee= t=20 schematics. The help files are pretty good. It takes some time getting used to the segment drawing modes (keep the grid= =20 snap size as large as possible). I also come from using EEDesigner (V2.75) and I was for many years reluctan= t to=20 change just because of the difficulty to evaluate a new software - you=20 basically need to learn the software and do a new design before you know ho= w=20 good it is. Now I am quite happy with Designspark, it allows me to quickly = draw=20 a schematic and do a board from that and it also provides the documentation= and=20 board manufacturing documents that I need. It does occasionaly crash but it= =20 regularly saves its own backup files so I have at the most lost about 5 min= utes=20 of work. /Ruben > Many thanks to everyone regarding their thoughts and experiences with=20 > Altium. I've also had a chance to talk with a couple of users here=20 > in Edmonton and they both tell me that they would NOT purchase Altium=20 > again, given their experience with the package. >=20 > Their experience matches some of what was mentioned by PIClisters -=20 > its buggy and it crashes. One local user sort-of drove a final nail=20 > into Altium's coffin - one of the main reasons I was wanting to make=20 > a change was because Altium updates component symbols and footprints=20 > on a regular basis. Craig (one of the local users I spoke with) says=20 > that Altium designs their footprints for high-end automated=20 > production equipment and the copper features are often too small for=20 > easy or reliable hand assembly and rework. >=20 > In other words, he winds up modifying most of the footprints that he=20 > uses (both SMD and through-hole) to have larger copper=20 > features. That is: wider and longer SMD pads, larger copper annulus=20 > on through-hole components. >=20 > So: if the main reason that I want to change to a different package=20 > has been negated, that pretty much eliminates the reason for making the > change. >=20 > The Altium rep is decidedly unhappy with me. That's 10 grand that=20 > I'm not going to spend with him. >=20 >=20 > Now on to a related topic: >=20 > What do people think the CAD package called "DipTrace"? The other=20 > Altium local user that my business partner spoke with runs a company=20 > somewhat larger than ours and he is currently evaluating DipTrace to=20 > replace Altium. He, too, is tired of the bugginess that Altium=20 > exhibits and is *REALLY* tired of paying the yearly software=20 > assurance fees that Altium charges. >=20 > I looked at DipTrace myself a few months ago, when Parallax jumped on=20 > board with the package but have never spent any significant time with=20 > the package. >=20 > I'm not particularly eager to get rid of CADint - its a=20 > stupidly-powerful software package that works really well. The=20 > Altium deal looked good because of the ever-increasing library of=20 > components and footprints, which CADint doesn't offer. But CADint is=20 > relatively difficult for newbies to learn (easier than Eagle, but not=20 > much) whereas DipTrace looks to be stunningly easy to learn. >=20 > Opinions greatly appreciated. >=20 > Many thanks! >=20 > dwayne >=20 > --=20 > Dwayne Reid > Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA > (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax > www.trinity-electronics.com > Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing >=20 > --=20 > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Ruben J=F6nsson AB Liros Electronic Box 9124 200 39 Malm=F6 Sweden www.liros.se Tel +46 40142078 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .