Hi Dwayne, ________________________________ From: Dwayne Reid To: pic microcontroller discussion list =20 Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 11:09 AM Subject: [EE] Altium Electronic CAD software questions =20 Good day to all. I'm part of Microchip's Design Partner program and Microchip has made=20 an offer that seems to be too good to pass up. Microchip is apparently switching all of their electronic CAD=20 software over to Altium.=A0 As part of that deal, they have extended an=20 offer to all Design Partners to purchase the Altium software for the=20 price of $2500 USD per seat.=A0 This is a price reduction of about=20 $4500 (List price US $6995). The first year's software maintenance cost of $1500 per seat is=20 included in that cost.=A0 However, the on-going cost is that yearly=20 cost of $1500 per seat. What the Altium sales rep told me is the maintenance cost includes=20 frequent updates (weekly or daily) for new symbols and=20 footprints.=A0 He says that Altium's intent is that individual users=20 don't have to spend time creating new library components / symbols=20 for newly-released parts.=A0 Instead, all of that is provided by Altium=20 as the new parts are released. Individual users do have to create their own custom symbols, of course. My questions to the PIClist community are this: 1) How do Altium users like the software? >> I use =A0Pads and Altium. Altium is very buggy and lots of things you ha= ve to do manual and long way. =A0 =A0 =A0it has good features too but to me base engine is too basic. I d= o not care if it make nice BOM etc. =A0 =A0 =A0so I use altium up to component placement then I finish the job = in pads. to me PADS and Altium=A0 =A0 =A0 can't be compared. You simply get used to what you do and later you= become better at that. =A0 =A0 =A0I personally like to use technology to help catch mistakes. my c= hoice is pads with altium together=A0 2) Is it reasonably easy to use (after the initial learning curve)? =A0 =A0 my way of saying it. it is done Altium way so you can't guess what = to do =A0 =A0 you really need to watch tutorial. there are things done really nic= e or you are =A0 =A0 going to say WHAT? it doesn't do that? make it short yes it is easy= after watching the video. 3) Is it stable? =A0 =A0not stable at all expect crash once in a while 4) Do you have to constantly check the output files (Gerber) to=20 ensure that they are accurate? once the gerber is done you can check it in camtastic software comes with i= t. 5) How is the documentation?=A0 Is (was) it easy to learn to use? =A0 =A0this part I give good credit. there are lots of videos and tutorials= .. =A0 =A0=A0 I'm currently using a combination of old software and new.=A0 My first=20 'real' electronics CAD package was something called 'EE Designer II'=20 and I *really* like it.=A0 I still use it to this day - but its not=20 optimum for SMD designs.=A0 It works, but its normal resolution grid is=20 only 12.5 mils and its usually not worth the hassle to use its fine=20 resolution mode of 5 mils.=A0 That said - I routinely design boards=20 that consist mostly 0603 components with it. EE Designer II was superceded by EE Designer III, then the company=20 went through some kind of shakeup and the software path split.=A0 One=20 company's version is called EDWIN, the other is CADint.=A0 We stuck=20 with the CADint people.=A0 CADint is based in Sweden and they have a US=20 rep.=A0 =A0 CADint is *really* powerful.=A0 Its default resolution is freaking tiny=20 (microns or tenth microns - don't remember) which means that it=20 switches seamlessly between English and Metric measurements with=20 absolutely NO error whatsoever.=A0 The software has tons of features=20 but I'm guessing that we use perhaps 10% of the package's capabilities. But (and there is ALWAYS a 'but'): the documentation sucks, bordering=20 on non-existent.=A0 We discover new features by playing with the=20 software, then making notes on what we did to make a particular feature wor= k. The up-side of the CADint software is the incredibly easy=20 ground-plane generation and the even-more-incredibly-easy Gerber file=20 generation.=A0 And: the software NEVER crashes.=A0 Not once, ever, in the=20 more than 20 years that I've been using EE Designer II and=20 CADint.=A0 I've done thousands of board layouts and spent more than ten=20 thousand hours using the software (both EE Designer II and CADint)=20 and it has NEVER crashed.=A0 This issue concerns me - I've heard some=20 horror stories regarding lost work from people who used Protel. I've also got a sweet-heart deal regarding the annual software=20 maintenance costs for CADint. My personal workflow is to create the PCB layout in EE Designer II,=20 then import into CADint for ground-plane generation and Gerber file=20 generation.=A0 However, I've been teaching our engineers to use CADint=20 rather than making them learn an obsolete package.=A0 As a result, I'm=20 the only person who still uses EE Designer II at my shop.=A0 Everyone=20 else uses CADint. The main reason that I am considering spending a ton of money to=20 change CAD packages is because of symbol and footprint=20 generation.=A0 CADint is super flexible and it takes a relatively long=20 time to create new footprints in the package because there are so=20 many options.=A0 In fact, I normally generate new footprints in EE=20 Designer II, then import them into CADint.=A0 It takes WAY less time=20 doing it that way. I've been sitting on this question for a few weeks now.=A0 The offer=20 from Altium expires next week and I'm either going to spend 10 grand=20 purchasing new software for 4 seats - or not.=A0 We are a tiny company=20 and spending this kind of money is something that I don't do quickly=20 or lightly.=A0 I'm hoping that feedback from the PIClist community will=20 help me decide. Many thanks! dwayne --=20 Dwayne Reid=A0 Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd=A0 =A0 Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (780) 487-6397 fax www.trinity-electronics.com Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .