Straying pretty far off topic here, but I bet someone here has the answer..= .. I am trying to get into neon tube bending for a gift I would like to make for next Christmas. To do it right will take at a minimum a cross fire burner and a ribbon burner. But these are hard to come by used, since the peak years of neon shops going out of business is past, and they are quite expensive new. So I have started to work on making my own torches out of steel tubing and brass fittings. But I am having trouble with designing the torch nozzles themselves. A simple propane torch just has a tiny aperture behind an air intake leading into the nozzle. But the actual neon tube torches seem to have very elaborate nozzles with lots of apertures at the end in various configurations, the whys and wherefores of which I do not understand. (See for example, http://www.sfsupplies.com/default.sfs?productid=3D5370) A google search has not turned up any good references on the design of torch nozzles. Do any of you happen to know of any? Thanks, Eric --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .