On 16 November 2011 20:46, not-me-despite-what-it-said=A0=A0wrote: > > > A true example of (truly well, unlike e.g. military) Applied Technology= !!: > >=A0https://www.innocentive.com/dual-use-grid-illumination-device Strange world. In the real world I can probably risk getting in trouble saying the followi= ng So I'll try to say it carefully. In an ideal world it wouldn't need saying at all Here is a webpage with images of some solar lights on it. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/522825132/long_distanc= e_led_flashlight.html The lights are very familiar to me. Very. It seems that these may be made with the mold used to make lights that I am familiar with. That mold was owned by my US client. Still is as far as I know. I do not know the company name of the people advertising them. But I have spent many interesting weeks of my life at a company with a different name at exactly the same address in Qingdao in China. The specs of these lights are interesting. They seem to have high lumen versions and tactical versions and long distance versions, but they all seem to have the same technical specifications. Not that I can tell how they can manage to achieve some of the claimed specifications. It is good to see that their light source lasts 10 years. That's certainly far far far far longer than the light source would have lasted for lights from the factory at the same address if they had used the LEDs that they wanted to use. Apparently =A0the different named factory has learned how to use quality LE= Ds. I see they are using epoxy covered PV panels. Long ago we decided this was not the best material to use. Maybe they have found a much better type of epoxy to use. I see they are CE Rohs ISO9001 certified. Maybe Rohs is not the same as ROHS. It was back then and may still be now. But maybe not. They are doing very well to have obtained ISO9001 certification. Definitely commendable. The white versions are interesting. They appear to have the same US company name on them in the photos (who can be sure of Alibaba's graphics?) as the name of a US company who sells identical looking lights which are currently being sold in the US.=A0The pricing of the white lights in the US is quite a lot different than the price being advertised on this site. Quite a bit. I understand that they say that they give a small sum to a charity for every white light sold. Commendable.=A0If the white lights being made in this factory were the same as the ones with the name of the US company on them which are shown on this site then I would think that calling them thieves and scum and other interesting names would not be inappropriate. However, I understand =A0that smart US lawyers employed by companies who have names strikingly similar to those shown here believe that they have demonstrated that buying lights like this and selling them in the US is entirely legal and defensible. I do not think that lawyers need to deal in ethical, moral or "being reasonable human beings" aspects. So I guess all is well. The lights shown here http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/521037439/super_bright_long_life_span_led= /showimage.html?newId=3D523493195&pn=3D4&pt=3D10&t=3D12&cids=3D Is interesting. It is not like all the others shown. =A0I used to be involved with making lights that look stunningly like that one when I used to visit the factory at the same address as the company that is advertising it now. I suspect they may not actually sell this light as the company seemed to have difficulty in making it by themselves without exterior input after the prior manager and most of the staff left and went somewhere else some while ago, which was some while after I stopped visiting there. I wonder how the average feel-good US buyers of the white lights would feel if they knew all the 'might be's' and 'appear to be's' and "amazingly similar to's" that I know of? Russell --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .