Well put John, My first CPU was made out of 7400 chips till one of my professors gave me a 6800 board that he had received and couldn't or wouldn't take the time to understand. After 30 years in the PC industry I find myself back in electronics faced with CPU's like the 32MX series and a bunch of wiz kids that know C but not the slightest thing about how a CPU works let alone a transistor. I make a living out of taming hot heads and guiding technicians in the hope that between the two we get a working product. But for fun and to keep myself up to date I prototype and build devices that would cost me a dollar or so to buy from China. We have become too specialized, working with the current generation chips I can see that that is important, but I still think there is room to expand your knowledge by experimentation even if it is a waste of time output wise. And for people who have retired (I don't think there is such an option theses days financially) there is nothing wrong with a hobby that keeps your mind active and answers the "How did they work that Magic" question. Cheers Chris p.s a few years behind John, but close enough to understand --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .