On Mon, 9 May 2011 22:15:51 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Philip Pemberton w= rote: >> Hi guys, >> >> I've just finished prototyping and initial customer testing for one of >> my designs, and I have about a dozen beta-testers who have signed off on >> it -- "this is what we want, we like it". The hardware design is proven, >> the bugs have been found (and eliminated) and I want to move on with the >> project. >> >> The catch is, it's currently taking two DAYS to make a single one of >> these boards. I just can't make them quick enough. Ramping up production >> would involve buying some seriously expensive kit... pick-and-place, >> solder paste placement, SMD ovens... you get the idea. >> > >Based on your description, you should be hand assembling faster than 2 >days per board. Are you doing a stencil, hand place, reflow process? >I would expect to assemble and debug about ten boards / day based on >your description. Ditto - I can't imagine how it can possibly take 2 days to make a board lik= e that. With a stencil (would need to be stanless for that pitch) and toaster oven,= and a foot-operated vacuum pen & strip holder for passives, you should easily get below an hour= per board once you get into the swing of things, but if you're into any significant quantity, subc= ontracting is definitely the way to go. As regards reccommeded subcontractors, I use CRS quite a lot for jobs on th= is scale and would happily reccommend them http://www.crs-electronics.co.uk/ Having a local place is a significant advantage as nothing beats face-to-fa= ce meeting in the early stages. Don't even think about going offshore for job on this scale, at lea= st not you've been through the process a few times with a local sub & know all the issues.=20 Cost-wise, based on similar jobs I've done wth CRS I'd guess you'd be loo= king at about =A3150 setup, =A3170 for the stencil and =A35-10 per board depending _very_ much on batch= quantity - I'd suggest you try to do a minimum of 50 at a time. This is for just the SMD assembly, one= -sided.=20 For the TH parts, doing it yourself may be easier/cheaper, although if the = TH and SM are all on the same side, most subcontractors will have flowsolder capabilities to do TH s= tuff - if it has to be hand soldered, it can get expensive due to labour cost so you may want to D= IY it. You will need to make sure things are production-ready - A subcontractor is= MUCH more likely to be happy to work with you on small jobs if you show up with everything product= ion-ready and know what you're talking about, so it can go into their sustem with minimum work on t= her part. e.g. Panelised PCBs with panel fiducials and local fids near fine-pitch pa= rts, pick & place location file, parts on tape/tray with leaders & spares etc - it's often e= aser to get the subcontractor to supply run-of-the-mill passives as they probably already = buy these by the reel. Most subs will also do complete kitting including PCB, although they charge= for this, their bulk-buying power and.or distributor discounts may offset at least some of = this.=20 If you're not familiar with the productionizing process I very strongly re= ccommend you watch this video before you do anything else: http://www.eevblog.com/2010/11/15/eevblog-127-pcb-design-for-manufacture-tu= torial/ As regards the "we don't deal with....." attitude, I've never experienced t= his, and you should probably avoid trying to pursuade anyone with this attitude as they clearly= can't be bothered with your business - the worst you should expect is having to pay in advance fo= r the first batch, The one thing you are not going to find is a subcontactor willing to turn = small jobs round quickly - you'll be fitting inbeween their regular customers, and expect typical le= adtimes of around 4 weeks. Some of this may be overlappable with PCB leadtime though if you boo= k the job in when the PCBs are ordered. =20 --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .