Hi ... my 2c on all this. I agree with Olin and the projects I do=20 follow the same arc of prototyping/revise/production with BOM=20 finalizing, initial firmware development, etc. etc. At one point long ago, I had the special paper to laserprint onto, spent=20 $200 for a laminator, have a dremel with set of 30 fine drillbits and=20 mini drill press, etc. I could do a design + layout and transfer, etch,=20 drill, fix etch problems, solder parts, and get something going in a day=20 or less for a simple thing. And for all the reasons Olin mentioned, I gave away all this gear (to=20 Limor Fried of all people, aka lady ada, who has gone from making pcbs=20 to buying a pick and place for her very successful biz and is now on the=20 cover of Wired of all things) and never looked back and never wished I=20 still had any of it, 7 years later. Because for all the reasons Olin mentioned it is not worth doing in a=20 professional context, with the possible exception of RF design work, and=20 that's a specialized field. For the enjoyment of the craft of it all, to fiddle around, have your=20 hands dirty (stained, actually, in this case) with as much DIY hands on=20 fun as one can with electronics, its great. This is not to be confused=20 with professional work. I know zero, that's zero, people who make their=20 own boards and bill that time to a client. Solarwind is in school;=20 other people do it as a hobby; part of the fun is seeing how cheap you=20 can be with it all. Can I make something in an afternoon for $6? A game. Around the point where it became clear that DIY pcbs were incompatible=20 with a career in electronics, I found barebonespcb.com, and that sealed=20 the deal - most of the fast turnaround DIY gets, but made with regular=20 industrial pcb manufacturing equipment so you can do normal design=20 rules. Highly recommended. I've done probably 60 designs with them as=20 the prototype phase. Anyway, that's my 2c. Been there with DIY pcbs, never again, but it=20 obviously depends on what one's intent with it all is. This year I'm=20 going to set up the garage to do basic metalwork kind of stuff, get a=20 used milling machine of some sort, have a cheap drill press, maybe some=20 welding gear, etc. A machinist or metal fabricator would look at it all=20 and say ugh, seriously? and he'd be right. But all I want to do is make=20 metal whatnots for some hobby-grade robotics and the like. If I were=20 billing per hour to build my stuff, I'd outsource all the fabrication. If solarwind over time moves a couple rungs up the ladder in terms of=20 design sophistication and need to have repeatable production / stable=20 project timelines, there will necessarily be the rather modest=20 additional funding to achieve this. DIY boards will no longer be=20 sensible. But by doing it the fun, sometimes hard way, he'll be real=20 good at continuity checking, finding faults fast visually, xacto knife=20 cuts and scraping, soldering in inconvenient situations, etc. etc. This=20 will serve anyone who does hands-on electronics design well. J Olin Lathrop wrote: > 'William Chops" Westfield '> It depends. Couple bucks for blank copper clad. Couple bucks for >> etchant. Significant bucks for the high-grade ink cartridge (for >> direct to PCB printing) (which may or may not dry up between PCBs (I >> hate inkjets!)) or a couple bucks for special transfer paper or >> transparency paper. Couple bucks for drill bits. Couple bucks for >> tool to cut the PCB material. Moderate amount for an inkjet printer >> to modify, or for a laminator, or for an iron, or for a contact >> exposure frame. Couple buck for other chemicals, sandpaper, etc. > > And not having plated holes, decent design rules like at least 8/8 mils > needed for modern packages, no silkscreen, no soldermask. When you reall= y > add it up, you're probably paying yourself less than $10/hour to make you= r > own boards. > > If you're really a hobbyist and claiming your time is worth little, then = why > is fast turnaround so important? I do this professionally where time=3Dm= oney, > and 1 1/2 weeks to get the boards back is rarely a problem. That gives y= ou > just about the right time to put the BOM together, order parts without ex= tra > fast shipping, and have everything arrive at about the same time. Meanwh= ile > you work on other projects. Surely you've got something else useful to d= o > while you're waiting for the boards and parts to show up? --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .