> Unfortunately I feel as if Olin has While it seemed likely that Olin was a catalyst for this thread it wasn't stated specifically. While I agree in general with the gist of what you are saying I don't agree wholly with the specifics. The Olin you describe is the one you meet on many occasions but not the only one. Olin, or maybe the other Olin, can be, in my perception, "just plain helpful", generous and open with his time and advice and generally above reasonable reproach. But, you can't count on it. If Olin worked for me we'd both go mad or bleed to death from wounds mutually inflicted :-). The ideal would me to have him (or me) working for a trusted sub contractor which had a suitable API / UI to allow the one of us involved to be interfaced successfully to the other. Russell --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .