Hello all,

this is seriously OT (hence in OT :) and sort of a personal request.

I've been given "heat" by Bob because he seems to think that with the
message cited below I have attacked and criticised the USA as a country.
However, despite repeated request, he never actually explained to me
what was offensive, claiming that I'm not capable of understanding --
yet requesting from me to be culturally sensitive.

I disagree, and think that if there was something, I am capable of
understanding. So if any of you felt attacked or offended in her or his
national pride by this sub-thread, please let me know -- offlist. This
is a sincere attempt to understand whether there is something I am
missing, and increase my cultural sensitivity (as requested).


I think I was comparing two taxation methods, giving some arguments why
I think one is better (by my own, stated criteria) and asking why Olin
seems to think the other is better. Olin usually has reasons for what he
thinks (even if I don't always agree), so I wanted to hear them -- I
tend to learn more from the ones that disagree with me :)=20

IMO there is nothing disrespectful about comparing different taxation
methods, even if these are currently employed in different countries.
(FWIW, it seems the state of Michigan did have a VAT-style tax for a
while. They probably didn't think it was unpatriotic. I also didn't even
remotely touch the (political) discussion around the introduction of a
federal VAT in the USA.)

Thanks,
Gerhard


Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

> Olin Lathrop wrote:
>=20
>> In practise, I think it would be very very difficult for a state to
>> pass a VAT tax.  First the people would be pissed and the
>> legislators would rightly fear for their jobs.  Second, that would
>> be a major logistical problem for that state since things move so
>> easily between states, and multi-state companies could use some
>> creative accounting. It would also be seen as a business-unfriendly
>> state, making it hard to attract new manufacturing plants or to keep
>> existing ones.
>=20
> Would you please explain why you think that a VAT system is less
> business-friendly than a (typical) USA-style sales tax system?=20
>=20
> I think of it as the other way round: The effect is in both cases
> that the consumer pays the tax and that he pays it only once (no
> accumulated taxation, as for example with certain taxes in Brazil),
> but the accounting for VAT is (in principle) simpler -- so VAT
> removes bureaucracy, and as such is an advantage for all involved.=20
>=20
> I did my taxes as a self-employed in Germany for many years, and it
> was really simple. When I started to do the same in the USA, it was
> much more complex -- and I didn't even get into sales tax questions,
> because the benefit of getting a sales tax number, buying components
> sales-tax free etc. just to spare a few dollars of sales tax wasn't
> worth all the hassle related to it. (I didn't sell much, mostly
> providing services.) But I would have liked it if I could have spared
> myself the expense without the related bureaucracy.=20
>=20
> In Germany with the VAT system, there was no bureaucracy at all: I
> simply discounted every cent (well, back then it was Pfennig) of VAT
> I had an invoice for from whatever VAT I had to pay for my own
> invoices. (If the balance was negative, I even got VAT back.) No
> accounting hassle, whoever sold me components didn't have to get a
> sales tax id from me, they just sent me an invoice with the VAT
> spelled out, and I got to deduct that VAT from the VAT I had to pay
> to the government for my own invoices. To me this seems much more
> straightforward, and has less bureaucracy involved.=20
--=20
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