At the risk of adding fuel to this fire.... Consider a helicopter hovering in otherwise still air. We can all agree there is a net downdraft, yes? I don't see it as too difficult to consider the wing of a plane to be a big linear fan blade doing essentially the same thing. -Denny --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .