That may be it too. Keep in mind I am an oldie here and many of my takes o= n descriptions may go back, oh, about 40 years or so. :-) =20 Randy Abernathy CNC and Industrial Machinery=20 service, repair, installation and=20 design 4626 Old Stilesboro Rd NW Acworth, GA 30101 Fax: 770-974-5295 Phone: 678-982-0235 E-mail:=20 randyabernathy@bellsouth.net _____ =20 From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of jim@jpes.com Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:45 PM To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Subject: RE: [PIC] Dumb PIC mistakes and solderless breadboards =20 =20 Randy, My take on what he means by "Air Wire" is that he soldered wires point to point between components without having the breadboard at all. In other words, the components are laying on the table deadbug style, and you just solder wires from pin to pin and let the wire hang in air. I could be wrong, but this is what I interpreted he was saying. Regards, Jim > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [PIC] Dumb PIC mistakes and solderless breadboards > From: "Randy Abernathy" > Date: Thu, January 20, 2011 2:03 pm > To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" > > > I have been using solderless breadboards for a good 30+ years (yes they h= adn't > been around long at that time). One thing I have discovered over those y= ears is > that most people who have problems with them tend to make them far too ne= at. I > have never had a problem using them, even on PIC circuits. I do know peo= ple > that have had problems trying to operate at the same clock speed as ones = I have > done but they were trying make the board look neat and in doing so, they placed > wires in parallel to each other and ended up with problems. I am assumin= g the > reference to "air wired" is what I use in that it means you aren't laying= the > wires down nice and neat on the breadboard but putting them "up in the ai= r" and > going directly from point to point. I have found over the years that is = the way > to go if you want things to work on a solderless breadboard. > >=20 > > Randy Abernathy > CNC and Industrial Machinery > service, repair, installation and > design > > 4626 Old Stilesboro Rd NW > Acworth, GA 30101 > Fax: 770-974-5295 > Phone: 678-982-0235 > E-mail: > randyabernathy@bellsouth.net > > > > > _____=20 > > From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf = Of > Vitaliy > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:45 PM > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. > Subject: Re: [PIC] Dumb PIC mistakes and solderless breadboards > >=20 > > Olin Lathrop wrote: > >> Haven't there been threads over the years that solderless breadboards > >> are evil? > > > > Of course, since there are always incompetent people that blame their > > tools > > instead of the real problem. Solderless breadboards can be quite usefu= l. > > Like any tool, they have their limitations, but those shouldn't be a is= sue > > for most ordinary PIC circuits. Adjacent nodes will have some capacita= nce > > between them, but so do parallel traces on a PC board. Most of the tim= es > > a > > few pF between nodes is expected and not a big deal for a well designed > > circuit. If you have a very sensitive analog circuit where a pF or two > > matters, then you should probably be using guard rings and the like > > anyway. > > > > I've used these solderless breadboards many times, including for PIC > > circuits with 20MHz crystals. I don't remember any problems due to the > > nature of the breadboards, although I thought about the characteristics > > when > > building the circuits. > > A while back our recently hired junior engineer built a breadboard circui= t > to test a MOSFET switch, and it just refused to work properly. When we pu= t a > scope on it, we found it oscillating at around 90Mhz. So we brought in an= FM > radio from the breakroom, added a 10-inch piece of wire to the drain, and > made the circuit into a theremin. > > He later air-wired the circuit, and it worked as intended (boring). > > Vitaliy > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > _____=20 > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3391 - Release Date: 01/19/11 > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist=20 _____ =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3391 - Release Date: 01/19/11 --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .