All valid points on both sides of the fence. I like my PicKit2, and I'm still learning some of it's debugging abilities. I became a great fan of bootloaders when I started working in the Midibox community. Since the "end product" sits in a tightly packed 19" rack with a gajillion wires attached, being able to dump a new program by using System Exclusive messages is a HUGE advantage, as well as being able to store various versions and apps as SysEx files and send them with just a mouse click from my non-supported OS. (Amiga) True that I cannot develop code on the Amiga, but it is the center of my Midi studio, and the bootloader lets it remain there comfortably. LyleHaze --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .