That actually explains a lot now. I only suggested the MCP2200 as it =20 too is a USB-Serial converter, but was not aware of the thru-hole =20 requirement. From what I remember of the MCP2200 when I read up on it =20 a couple months back, it does not require any special driver for Linux =20 other than the built-in drivers (possibly HID, but don't hold me to =20 that). I'm fully on board now, as I seem to get asked regularly what to use =20 to get started with PIC programming, and I always recommend the =20 Pickit2, but many aren't even willing to pay $35 to get their feet =20 wet, and would rather put in the time rather than the extra bucks to =20 get a programmer. From your website, it seems your trivial LVP would =20 fit the bill very nicely. Looking forward to seeing the outcome. Cheers, -Neil. Quoting Byron Jeff : > > But therein lies the catch 22 that I refered to. To program a PIC in JAL > you need a programmer of some sort. PIC, unlike some other chips in the > past, do not have a built in bootloader, so that they can be programmed o= ut > of the tube with a serial interface. > > The legacy ports always gave you pins that you could wiggle in software. > USB does not without attaching something else to it. The cheapest and mos= t > ubiquitous device nowadays for that is a USB serial interface. > >> >> As long as you are doing data and not "bit-banging" any language/program >> can use a virtual serial port provided by a USB interface. >> >> Then the PIC can use I2C, Serial, Parallel, PATA, ICSP and many other >> interfaces. An 18F2550 or 18F4550 is a good one to start playing with. > > But how do you program it? I know the typical answer to this is "buy a > programmer". But if you're only going to use it once in a blue moon, > because the primary mode of development is a bootloader, it's not as simp= le > a decision as you may think. > >> >> In fact the Pickit 2 is this using USB HID. You can use it as a logic >> analyser, TTL serial adaptor or ICSP. You can even put your own firmware >> on it. Quite inexpensive. > > Exactly my point. You need a programmer in order to program the chip. > > I know I've been gone awhile, but I was pretty sure everyone here knew my > thoughts on the development process. There are tons of threads going back > several years on this particular discussion. > > Modern PICs can program themselves. No additional programmer required. Bu= t > it requires software to get into the part so that it can program itself. > > Catch-22. > > My Trivial LVP here: > > http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys > > always served that purpose for me, and quite a few other hobbyist. But th= e > death of parallel ports (or at least integrated ones) killed this design. > I'm searching for a replacement. > > BAJ > -- > Byron A. Jeff > Department Chair: IT/CS/CNET > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences > Clayton State University > http://cims.clayton.edu/bjeff > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .