Tamas Rudnai wrote: > Just asked my father who's mother tongue is German, and he confirmed > that 'ein' is no need if you say you are from Berlin. In fact, if you > say 'ein Berliner' then you rather say that you are 'something' - in > this case that pastry. Yes, but saying just "Berliner" would have been too presumptive of someone not actually from Berlin. It is OK for someone truly from Berlin to say "Ich bin Berliner", but that wouldn't be right for a foreigner trying to claim a sortof honorary Berliner status as Kennedy was doing. Kennedy's us= e of german in that phrase was not only correct, but also appropriate. Keep in mind he was coached on the details of the wording and pronounciation (although he rather messed up the latter) by the mayor of Berlin shortly before the speech. Again, you have to read the windup to the one-liner and understand the poin= t Kennedy was trying to make. He was expressing solidarity with the people o= f Berlin. Perhaps more importantly, he was making it clear that the United States was going to stand up for Berlin and not consider it a write-off and leave it to the communists. It may seem inconsequential to us now, but many consider that short speech to be a turning point in the cold war. Up until then, the Soviet Union had been allowed to expand communism largely unopposed from the west. Some in the west were considering much of Germany as a sacraficial zone to keep peace. It was openly debated as to whether Berlin should be written off an= d whether the trouble to keep it free was worth the cost. It was against this backdrop that the Berliners were anxiously listening to every word the president of the United States was saying. School was calle= d off that day, many businesses closed, somewhere between 120 and 200 thousan= d thronged to the plaza in front of City Hall to see Kennedy, and most of the remaining Berliners were glued to their radios listening live. Kennedy was speaking as much to the Soviets as he was to the Beliners. To the Soviets he was saying "That's enough, it stops right here". To the Beliners he was saying "We stand by you, we will not abandon you". The people there that day understood this clearly, and *that* was the reason fo= r the large applause. Look at the live recordings of the event and you will see the Berliners were not laughing at Kennedy and redicule was not on thei= r minds. I don't get where this absurd pastry interpretation came from. The actual words were approved by a native german, even a Berliner, in fact the mayor of Berlin. The german was correct and appropriate. In context there is absolutely no way to misunderstand the meaning. The couple million or so Berliners who heard the speech live understood it. So where do we come off years later trying to claim it incorrect? ******************************************************************** Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .