On Dec 20, 2010, at 11:18 AM, David Robertson wrote:

>>=20
>>=20
>>>> You can easily develop with a "full" Arduino board, and then use it to
>> simply program more chips that you are going to use in other >>projects.
>> Installing a ZIF DIP socket on the Arduino board makes it trivial. Your
>> Arduino board is filling the same role (with the same >>order of expense=
) as
>> a PICKIT2. Just as with PIC chips, an ATmgea can be used in a project wi=
th
>> very little external hardware.
>>=20
>>=20
> Actually, (as much as I do like arduino) the AVRs must first be programme=
d
> with a bootloader by traditional in-system programmer before they can be
> programmed using an arduino board, however one can still use the arduino =
IDE
> to write and compile code which can then be used with stock AVRs programm=
ed
> by an ISP. Or, there actually is a way to use the arduino as an AVR
> programmer, but not in the way you described. It involves leaving the
> arduino AVR in the arduino and loading the ArduinoISP sketch (included in
> the latest version of the IDE) and connecting the arduino to another AVR =
to
> be programmed. More information is available here
> http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP .

Yes, I've used that method. The Arduino IDE uses avdude under the hood to p=
rogram the device. One can use any avr compatible toolchain to build images=
 which can then be written using your programmer of choice. Lots of ways to=
 get from code to a programmed chip.

The point I was trying to make was that the PICKIT should have been compare=
d to a full arduino board, not just a ATmega chip.

As somebody else pointed out, the Arduinos are handy for prototyping and on=
e-offs. Building a commercial product around a full Arduino board would be =
cost prohibitive.

-Pete



--=20
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