Jim, I have talked to people who went to ITT before the 90's and they all had similar experiences to yours. In fact, one of the big reasons I did decide to go to ITT was that my father knew people who's kids went there and they all ended up with great jobs. I have a pretty good job, but I did have experience before I went to ITT (I started working in IT when I was still in High School, actually working for the School District -- meaning by the time I was going to ITT technical institute, I already had four years experience in IT). Most people I went to school with had no experience, were generally from the worst parts of Detroit, and had little if any chance of getting a real job (even help desk would have been a struggle for some). Their way of getting people to go to their school these days seems to be to push the whole "YOU WILL MAKE TONS OF MONEY" in front of disadvantaged people who don't know a computer from a toaster oven. I think ITT went downhill from the time you went there - quick. Troy campus was a joke. I cannot speak as to other campuses, but I cannot imagine they were much better. Case in point -- when I was going there, one of my requirements was to take a Cisco class (basic routing and configuration of switches, etc -- not even enough to get your CCNA). The instructor wasn't half bad (he knew what he was doing, basically, and I think he had practical experience with routers, though he wasn't -- as far as I could tell -- actually certified in any of it). I will give you one anecdote about that class: Our final assignment (think final exam) was to configure a couple of Cisco routers to talk to each other, building a virtual WAN between the routers. Thats it, get them talking and you win! Router a was supposed to be Detroie, b was supposed to be Chicago, c was supposed to be New York, and d California. We had to get the parameters he gave us (for the first serial interface, which was supposed to be connected into a T1 line -- if I am getting termanology wrong, please excuse me, I haven't touched a router since I left there). So, basically the only "challenge" was to set the IPs correct, configure the serial interfaces, and make them talk properly (using CLI). In other words, it was a simple assignment. To make it even more simple, the instructor told us exactly what was going to be on the exam (the exact problem with the exact parameters) and then went so far as to tell us the exact commands we would need to execute to get the exam right. We were allowed to have our notes. EVEN WITH THAT -- we had a guy who couldn't do it, with us (you know, the other students) actually hand feeding him our notes telling him what to do. At last, the instructor helped him, and the exam concluded WITH THIS GUY PASSING! I think that ITT may have been good a long time ago, but its a joke now. All it is now is a degree mill. The ITT degree is an industry joke for IT people and programmers. What you experienced in the early 1980s is not what is going on now. Not only has the cost trebled -- but the big problem is that their career placement sucks. When I graduated, the only "placement" I was given was an option to man a help desk for 10 dollars an hour (which - I might add - was less than the money I was making basically interning (I will give credit where it is due, an instructor happened to know a guy working at a local software company who needed a cheap code monkey and I was able to get in the door) and writing software). When I moved to Florida (after graduation) I contacted the ITT here and the same was true here as it was in Michigan. If you want to get a job, you work help desk. I still think it was a waste of money, and I tell anyone thinking of going there not to believe the BS they hand you in the commercials, that it was an absolute joke. If anyone wants, I can share more of the stories -- the one I shared here was the tip of the iceberg, and by no means the full enchalada. Aleksei On 1 December 2010 10:55, wrote: > > All, > > I can speak of ITT with some authotiry sine I too attended ITT > Technical Institute in Ft. Wayne, Indiana > for two years during 1981-1983. I attended mostly because I needed > official documentation that I knew > what I said I knew about electronics. My dad was a radio-TV repairman > since he left the U.S. Army in 1945. > So I was born into an electronics environment. And I never wanted to > do anything else. I took electronics > in High school. I was a Missle Fire Control Technician in the U.S. > Navy. And when I left the Navy, I got > a job in a factory that makes radios for the U.S Air Force. > > But that isn't what I wanted to do all my life, so I went looking for > other opportunities with a better > future. However, those people I met with said they could tell I was > very knowledgable. But I didn't have > any official documentation of education. And that was a stumbling > block. (BTW, I'm talking mid 70's here). > > So, I heard about ITT from a friend, and went to check it out. It was > expensive. About 10K per year at the > time. I got some grants and other funding, but it still cost me about > 12K or so when I was done. As far as > I'm concerned, it was the best money I have spent in a lng time. > > Just before my class graduated, there were several companies that sent > recruiters to interview and > designate potential hirees. My brother-in-law and I both attended at > the same time. And we were both > hired at the same time. By Texas Instruments in Houston, Texas USA. > So, we moved to Texas (from Indiana). > T.I paid for our move, and they put us up in a hotel until we found a > house. I worked for T.I for 15 years, > and was laid off. I went across the street to anotheer company, > Input-Output, an Oil Field Services > Company. Here I worked on designing the next generation Marine Oil > Survey Equipment. After a few years, > I transferred to a different department, and have basically been here > since. > > The jist of all of this is that I had substantial electronics knowledge > and skills before going to > ITT Tech. But I needed official proof that I had post secondary > education at an accredited learning > institution before I could advance to the type of work I wanted to do. > Since I graduated from ITT Tech, > I have done exactly that. > > My official title for the last 12 years or so is Senior Electronics R&D > Technician. However, my job is > basically that of an Engineer. I get paid well for what I do. And I > like what I do. I'm still working > on next generation seismic equipment, except that now I'm working on > ground based equipment versus Marine > based of a few years ago. > > The bottom line for me is that the money and time I spent at ITT was > well worth it. And T.I. paid me to > go to college and get an undergrad degree. Many other companies offer > this incentive too, so you should > check potential employers to see if they make this offer. If they do, > ou can work and earn your degree > at the same time, and have it paid for by your employer. > > I do not regret going to ITT. It was the best thing for me at the > time, and it has served me well through > the years. I would urge anyone wanting to get into electronics or > computers to consider ITT Tech. > I know it is a good school. And as an FYI, ITT has changed their > format from when I attended. It is now > run more like a college than a trade school. And I believe most of the > courses are now transferrable to > other colleges and universities. My sone attended ITT a couple of > years ago. He is now living in Ft. > Wayne. He too was in the Navy as a Nuclear Tech aboard submarines. > > Regards, > > Jim > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Jim > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [EE] Thinking of finishing my degree..... >> From: Alexandros Nipirakis >> Date: Wed, December 01, 2010 9:02 am >> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." >> >> >> --If I may interject my opinion -- >> >> If you are in the United States, and you are thinking about college -- >> there are several ways of getting through college. Some are better >> than others, and I am going to comment only on my personal experience >> with the education system here. I AM NOT TRYING TO START A DISCUSSION >> ON POLITICS. >> >> With that said, I went to ITT Technical Institute for an associates >> degree. Yup, I spent the time and money to go to that wonderful >> example of private education, and it was horrible. I am still paying >> back the money for ITT tech, and probably will be for many years (it >> is at least 33k to go there, or was when I attended in 2003). >> >> Having spent that kind of money, I was obviously interested in >> transferring a few of the credits towards my BS degree. Asked UCF >> (University of Central Florida, a public university) what I could >> transfer, they said "Exactly nothing." >> >> Given this, and knowing how these stupid colleges work, I assumed that >> DeVry would transfer at least some of my ITT credits. They would (not >> many, only a few) but it was going to be another 40k to get my >> undergrad. >> >> I have a small bit of experience with DeVry, it is (IMHO) not too far >> from ITT tech in quality of education. Some people get a lot out of >> it, others not so much. >> >> My current plan (which is basically on hold because I have other >> things going on) is to complete another Associates Degree with a >> community college, and then transfer to FSU (Florida State University) >> for a BS in Computer Science. The whole idea of the degree is of >> dubious usability to me at this point since I am coming up on 10 years >> of professional experience in Computer Programming. >> >> Obviously I am a CS major, so perhaps for other programs something >> like ITT would be good (they did seem to have some decent electronics >> instructors - at Troy,MI Campus, but I never took any electronics >> courses, and wouldn't know bad from good anyways). >> >> With all that said -- >> >> * Online is OK if it's offered through a public university (many are >> beginning to offer this because the demographic of the college going >> public seems to be shifting to working adults) >> >> * If you go private, expect to pay much more for your degree >> >> * Many private schools are just degree mills (note, there are plenty >> of good private universities out there, I am talking about the ones >> that advertise on TV primarily). In other words, you are buying a >> degree. Don't expect to learn a thing about what you are going to >> school for. Don't expect to earn a good wage with this "degree." >> (there are exceptions, particularly if you are good at what you are >> going to school for, but the degree is nearly useless). >> >> * Public universities and colleges will almost always transfer >> credits amongst themselves. Private colleges and universities may or >> may not (expect that if you got your degree at a degree mill, you will >> not be able to transfer your credits to a reputable public university) >> >> * There is no easy way to a degree. Expect easy degrees to come from >> degree mills and be of near zero usefulness in a professional >> environment. >> >> * Going to a public university means a whole bunch of extra courses >> (here in Florida, you need at least one year of foreign language to >> even touch the junior level courses for example). There is no way out >> of them. >> >> * Going private doesn't mean you will be absolved of these courses. >> >> * If a private college doesn't make you take liberal arts courses >> (English, Public Speaking, etc.) then I would run. Generally, in my >> experience, this means they are either a degree mill or a tech school >> (career training). >> >> I said that all to say - in the US (IMHO) there is basically one big >> distinguishing factor. Either you are going to a degree mill, or a >> good school. The former is almost always going to be a private >> school. There are some public universities that are not as good as >> others, but in my experience, if they are public you will proabably >> get a cheaper education, and one that is more useful to you >> professionally. >> >> Another note, if money is a factor, always go in state. In state >> tuition is almost always cheaper than out of state. I know that is a >> no-brainier to most people, but when I started researching it, I was >> completely floored by how much of a difference there was. >> >> Finally, be careful about Universities that tout their accreditation >> too much. In my experience, this means that the accreditation is >> useless (ALWAYS research their claims), and that they are pushing it >> because they have little else to bring to the table. >> >> Aleksei >> >> On 1 December 2010 09:12, Xiaofan Chen wrote: >> > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:03 PM, CDB wrote: >> >> >> >> :: "Don't even think of putting that university on your UCAS form. >> >> :: Apply to Leeds and York instead." >> >> >> >> What's wrong with the Open University, or has that gone downhill as w= ell? >> >> >> >> (Memories of Dr Allan Solomon with the widest kipper tie to grace >> >> television and bell bottoms). >> > >> > Open University is one of the UK universities which are >> > not that recognized by quite some employers here in Singapore. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Xiaofan >> > -- >> > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> > View/change your membership options at >> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >> > >> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .