Hat: No

> OK, Russell, now I'll put on my admin hat.

> If you don't want to hear me say the things I say, it's real easy.
> 1. NO POLITICS on the Piclist.
> 2. Don't hit reply.
> Bob

Indeed.
But, as I noted:

1. Our rules are too vague, and so allow vague interpretation of the
meaning of "politics" at the whim of list admins.

2. Economics <> politics, although they often hold hands. Many people
talk re the former on list and are allowed to do so with no comment at
all by admins. Admins even join in or even originate economic themes,
with no suggestion that this is wrong.  But ...

3. If Vitaliy speaks about  anything that has any economic content,
even peripherally, this is "often" deemed to be politics and thus in
violation of the "no politics" requirement.

While I find some of Vitaliy's economic ideas naive and quaint or even
occasionally somewhat distressing (army boots, height, age ...  :-) )
it's not apparent to me why he should not be treated the same as other
people are on such matters.

There is no doubt* that Vitaliy knowingly pushes the limits on such
things on occasions, if our rules were somewhat bettert cast he would
have less opportunity to do so.

4.  One solution is to stomp on everyone here who has any inclination
to talk on anything vaguely economic - while that's one way to foil
the dread Vitaliy,

- Stomping on things seems unacceptable, whether it be list members or othe=
r.

- it also would debar a lot of the existing conversations which
clearly people are interested in and which happens now without any
problems.  About the only time we have problems with such
conversations is when Vitaliy has the temerity to join in, when they
become  by definition political and so proscribed. A somewhat more
consistent and less confusing approach would be nice.

We need an adult and acceptable and generally accepted interpretation
of what "politics" means

IF ALL THE APATHETIC  ADULT CARING LIST MEMBERS DON'T ADD SOME VIEWS
ON ALL THIS  ABOUT NOW YOU'LL END UP WITH BOB'S VIEW THAT POLITICS IS
ANYTHING THAT VITALIY SAYS plus some stuff about donkeys and bears.

SPEAK UP NOW, OR BE HAPPY WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

_______

And as I said:

"Robust discussion trickling along the borders of politics and
economics, to make a point, or even tacking perhaps too deeply into
one or other, may well be fine enough if it has some deep point - or
may not. However, ad hominem attack and personal abuse are completely
different matters and are also quite independently not allowed by list
rules.
Unlike the present excessively vague rule re "no politics", the
meaning of "hate" at a personal level has been far better established
in past exchanges."

Nothing that was said in response addressed that in any way.

You can't deal with rule A being poorly defined by knowingly violating rule=
 B.
Attempting to do so is liable to be nonproductive.



               Russell

* A certainty. There's only way to be certain about such things. Think
about it :-)
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