On 06/11/2010 15:14, Sean Breheny wrote: > Perhaps my understanding is wrong but I usually think about this in > the following way: > > To get net heat flow of Pf from source at temperature T0 to sink at > temperature T1 requires power P1. > > If T0>T1, the heat flow is spontaneous, P1 is negative, and you can > actually get some useful work out of the system by using a heat > engine. > > If T0 "pump" the heat against the temperature gradient. However, the power > P1 which you input to the system also gets converted to heat and > contributes to Pf. So, you actually get Pf+P1 heat flow out into the > sink at temperature T1. > > If you are going to heat a house using electricity, you could use a > pure resistive heater and be 100% efficient (i.e., all of your input > power is converted to heat). You could alternatively use a heat pump, > in which case you input P1, which allows you to push Pf heat flow > against the gradient from the cold outside to the warm inside, so the > total thermal input power to the house is Pf+P1. There is still strict > conservation of energy because Pf came from heat taken from outside, > it didn't just appear from nowhere. The air outside got colder when Pf > was taken from it. > > It also isn't a violation of thermodynamics because the heat didn't > flow against the gradient spontaneously - power P1 had to be input to > cause the reverse heat flow. > > It's the same thing as saying that an air conditioner heat sink must > dissipate the sum of the electrical input power AND the heat flow from > the cold side. But we have turned the air conditioner unit around so > that we are cooling the outside and heating the inside. In both cases > we are moving heat against the temp gradient. > > Sean > To my thinking the "efficiency" of a heat pump is how close the energy=20 input is to the theoretical minimum. A regular compressor/evaporator +=20 two radiators machine such as Fridge/Air-conditioner has a particular=20 efficiency as does a solid state heat pump. To compare you need the=20 efficiency for a given energy transferred up a T1 -> T2 If it's a=20 fridge or air-conditioner then T1 is desired lower temperature and T2 is=20 ambient. If it's a heat pump then T1 is ambient and T2 is desired higher=20 temperature. You can't transport energy from T1 ->T2 for free. There is a theoretical=20 minimum for given (T2-T1) and transfer rate. --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .