BCCs were either involved or should find my stupidity amusing if not salutary. >> Ordinary vaccum cleaners don't generate anywhere near .5 atmosphere. I tried to use a vacuum cleaner on "blow" to drive an air line to help me in patching a pool liner that was near death and growing holes as it rubbed against the underlying concrete. I found that it would push air down maybe 2 feet and that I had to rise from the bottom to the level; where I could get air and then go down again - still better than using a snorkel etc. In due course the liner died - my young son came home from school and threw a dive stick into the pool. It hit the side and catalysed the pending death. The liner ripped with a vast bang (I'm told) as about 60 tons of water settled into its new home. The pool was left with maybe a foot of water in it. My son was sure he was in vast trouble - when I got home I thought it was a great joke - liner death had been overdue. Now - DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME !!! :-) - I can't believe I did this, I can't believe I'm still alive [tm] ... The vacuum was on the poolside. While preparing to remove the dead liner, and knowing that it could not make anywhere near enough head to push air down into the pool and as it was now well above pool level I decided to see how far up the hose it would pull water to. I was standing in the pool. Duh! Turned on vacuum. As expected it moaned and laboured as it pulled a head of water to a small height and no further. Then very suddenly, water shot up the hose into the machine and it started to spray water out various orifices while still running. I had visions of imminent death and left the pool asap. Water is not "overly" conductive and the column of rising water would have been the conduit to the pool water, which I'm sure would have been bulk grounded very well. The water was probably chlorinated and had other chemical in it. Even if mains current did flow into the pool I would quite possibly have been OK as I would (perhaps) be at a local potential above ground but not have a significant potential difference between my legs. Murphy has ways of making theories like that not work. So, I didn't die, I had fun, I learned several new things, and the vacuum got an internal wash. Russell --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .