Hi all, I have a new project based on a 16f877A and my attempts at programming the first batch of protos is being derailed. I've attempted to program four different units at this point and I'm experiancing different failures with each, which is down right wierd. I believe I can rule out programmer issues (a CCS ICD-U64), I have a different project on my desk, also based on the 16f877A that I can read and write without issues. The most interesting of the failures is what I get when I try to read the device ID. On two of the units I get 111111111, but on two other units the software reports: Read XX011100010XXXXX Expect XX001110001XXXXX Now, reading all 1s suggests a stuck pin or other short, but these other units apear to be sending the ID back shifted one bit to the left. Has anyone seen that before?. Any suggestions would be apreciated, but I have at least one specific question: Is an oscilator on the PIC neccesary for programming? For reading the Device ID? -Denny --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .