> All I am saying is that they have a brand which worth a lot, ... And yet, I have not yet found a bargepole long enough to allow me to acquire a modern Mac' or other iXxxxx product. And it is *because* they have believed their own marketing and allowed it to flow over into allowing them to do things to their customers, or prevent their customers doing things that they (i...) consider undesirable or unprofitable (if there is a difference from their perspective. At least the expensive shoes are just very very overpriced and make you a social pariah if you don't wear them - at least they usually don't force you to run funny, or only on one side of the street, or stop you seeing the crowd in stadiums they don't approve of etc. Same tends to go for the stupidly expensive clothes and "accessories". They largely just cost far too much but are usually of better quality than most well priced brands. But not all. Russell PS: How can you live without a delete key ? :-). --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .