> We've always programmed (DIP) PIC chips using our PicStart+ > programmers, but this can be a real pain when debugging code > and precludes the use of SMD packages. So, I'm wanting to > implement ICSP on all new boards where possible David, the PicStart+ is of limited use for ICSP because wasn't designed for that, and may not have the Vcc drive to power a whole circuit There are at least a couple of options Continue to use the PicStart+ and isolate the PIC with pads that can be bridged after programming to connect it to the circuit See http://www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/picstartplusicsp.htm which includes a switch option to do the same thing during s/w development. I used this method a lot Or get a programmer with enough drive capability to power the whole circuit, such as Olin's (see link below). I think some can supply 500mA or more If some parts of the circuit take a lot of current (eg LED display) you may need to isolate those during programming, or have the regulator output match the programmer Vcc so that power can be applied. A possible problem there is that some programmers verify at Vcc lower than your specific 5V. I'm sure Olin can advise you on pitfalls and workarounds Joe * * ********** Quality PIC programmers http://www.embedinc.com/products/index.htm --=20 http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist .