Some reordering of flow:

On 15 July 2010 05:14, Rolf <rolf@tuis.net> wrote:
> Russell.
> I think, that you missed a step of logic in this point, notithstanding
> it being 4:45am for you,

Probably several :-)

> Specifically, there is no indication that the annoyed state of 'some'
> piclist members is caused by the language content of the mail.

Probably true re state of mind, but

> I think it needs to be established first whether the annoyance was
> caused by the allegedly poor English,

No. Nobody has suggested this.
The ebb & flow of the thread appears to have lead to confusion re what
was said to be annoying.

It was NOT the manner in which English was used which was said to be
annoying, but the comment on the usage.
Nobody has claimed to be complaining  that the language is annoying.
The critiquer said

          >> The idea was, as always, very simple - to help a person
improve his language.

I can only guess at what "as always" means in this context.

>  I think it is important to identify the fact that cause and effect
> have not been established in this case. ...
> ... in this case it is very important to establish the WHY rather
> than the just ARE.

I did not seek to establish cause and effect - in the original post of
mine, which I cited, I stated it as a maxim and explained the basis of
my understanding.

I was intentionally dealing with "just are".

ie I asserted that if you provide an otherwise contentless post with
a web reference to a page pedaling pedantic prosody, in response to a
technical  post where the fine points of language usage was highly
irrelevant to the technical points, then you will in a significant
proportion of cases annoy the original poster.

I noted that I based my "just are" assessment on my nearly 20 years of
internet experience and 'somewhat longer' experience of human nature.

Summarised: "If you [ bring to someone's attention by quoting a web
page | pedantically & rudely get in someone's face] (choose one) re a
point of linguistic construction that would stunning fail the Ret
Butler "Frankly my dear ..."  test for just about every English
speaker you could meet, then you can expect annoyance.

> > ... it is inevitable that some members are latently annoyed,

My point was that if you act in a manner that near universal internet
and human nature based experience shows that most people would
consider rude then most people will consider it rude. The actual or
claimed intentions of the poster will make little difference to the
perception - the medium is a large part of the message. See my next
response to this post for a more succinct example :-).


            R
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