>> Alan (who has a mangled hand due to incident with table saw). I had a friend (now dead) who was a joiner. He had 4 reasonably functional fingertips with a diagonal line running across them at increasing distance from the end of the fingers - where the saw blade took them off and the surgeons successfully put them back on again. He did it a long long time ago - I'm surprised how well the "repair" worked. I'm sure he'd have been a SawStop customer if they'd been available some decades earlier :-). I think SawStop is a great idea - and one day (almost) all saws will be built SOMETHING like that. But not until they make one with a detection system which is truly preemptive and makes it truly injury free in normal use AND costs zilch if it false trips. I think I'd have a fair prospect of making something now which comes close to all that. (Read prior posts for some of that). SawStop are going to have to have extremely broad and insightful patents if they want to keep asking 8% royalties. Russell For following, all rights reserved. :-) - what rights those are vary with administration. NZ = none. US = much AFAIK. Some mix of some of: - Pop back blade to withdraw from user at a velocity which rapidly exceeds some design feed rate. - Cover/guard which shrouds blade - with blade having withdrawn far enough that finger is not impacted by closing guard. - Rapid but non damaging braking. - Non contact proximity sensing. "Those skilled in the art" [tm] will easily envisage many methods by which this may be achieved. Examples only include capacitance, optical (& electromagnetic in general) (eg camera hand position tracking, beam blocking, reflective, doppler, TOF ranging, ...) , acoustic (much of as for light), etc. - Adding a signal to machine or user to enhance operation both in isolation and wrt conductive materials. eg em signal capacitively coupled from user to blade system. Increasing frequency allows decreasing capacity coupling requirement until substantial non contact proximity viable. - Glove / hand / finger piece or mark or ring etc fir highly positive tracking. More applicable in professional systems allowing very great freedom of movement relative to open blade etc in exchange for discipline of utilising the system. - Extension to many or any other systems - saws, rotating and linear action machinery, presses, stampers, guillotines and anything that moves. Non contact proximity vvv desirable in some of these - eg large press - ir pressing your fingertips is unwise AND a hand in the air may be well inside "maw" of machine when closing action starts. Active hand etc (limb, head, body ...) tracking allows extremely good control. Two or more systems can track and vote to give near failsafe operation. This is getting well away from SS ideas but is even more useful. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist