Wouter van Ooijen wrote: >> I also hope that we can manage to both avoid the more extreme winding >> up of newcomers > > I am afraid the concern for that problem will drive away even more > experienced users. It is no fun to be on a list when both your hands > are tied behind your back. Exactly. Russell has a particular way he thinks everyone should interact. He is intitled to that. Unfortunately he is in a position of power and abusing it by imposing his standard on everyone. I find his style and approach annoying at times. However, I would not seek to disalow it if I had the authority to do so. RTFM is and the message behind it is the right thing to say in some circumstances. It is a accepted way to communicate in many situations, including many forums, mailing lists, and in person. Forcing those who would naturally say that and related things to always look over their shoulder is obnoxious, and will curtail envolvement. Why doesn't it count that we are offended by not being allowed to say RTFM when we think it's appropriate? It's funny how Russell was talking about compromise, but I don't see anything in the new official policy that deviates far from his opinions. What exactly did he compromise on? Then there is the issue of laws should only be made with broad support. The vast majority agree that stealing, killing, etc, are wrong, so we have laws that prohibit them. There is certainly no broad support here for banning RTFM, so there shouldn't be a law against it. Having one is then just a minority trying to impose their view of things on everyone. That's wrong. Chill out and be more tolarant. There is rarely any need for official action. Things will work out on their own if you just let them, and recognize that people will occasionally need to jump in and talk about what is acceptable or not. That's important and healthy in any community. ******************************************************************** Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist