Mike snyder wrote: > Highest quality what a joke, Mike, I don't know what is the motivation behind your unprovoked assault, but I'll take the rest of your comments at face value. > I had purchased a scantool from ebay for > $ 12.00 + $ 10 shipping, linking to a similar one here > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ELM327-OBD2-Auto-Scanner_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19ba67c836QQitemZ110501546038QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools $22 sounds a bit too low, the eBay tool above is $30. A lot of times a good chunk of the price is included in the shipping price (look at the envelope your device came in, there's only a couple of bucks worth of stamps). > Imagine my surprise when a buddy of mine showed me an interface that > he bought off of scantool.net > > http://www.scantool.net/elmscan5-compact.html > > The packaging looked identical so I told him that he got scammed, he > did not believe me so we unscrewed the 4 screws holding the plastic > casing down and surprise surprise > > It was identical to the one I bought off ebay - except for the front label We manufactured ElmScan 5 for four years (2005-2009): http://www.scantool.net/scan-tools/discontinued/elmscan-5.html During that time, a number of other companies introduced similar products based on the ELM327 IC and created a situation that is commonly referred to as a "red ocean": several companies competing in the same market, driving down each other's prices. Last summer, we launched OBDLink, which has a number of important advantages, including firmware upgrades, faster refresh rates, and an enhanced command set: http://www.obdlink.com While it instantly outsold all of our other products by a wide margin, we felt that there was a market for a lower end scan tool for people who care more about price than they do about upgradeability, performance, or access to non-OBD modules. So we did some research and located a company in Hong Kong who was able to supply good quality scan tools at a fair price. We were flattered to find that someone in China bothered to reverse engineer our venerable ElmScan 5 and copy elements of its circuit design. :-) Have you ever wondered why LeCroy's low end scopes look exactly like Rigol's? It's called "rebranding". ElmScan 5 Compact (ES5C) is custom built for us in China, but the final testing, programming, and packaging is done in Phoenix, Arizona: http://www.scantool.net/elmscan5-compact.html We buy samples from eBay and other places on a regular basis, and I assure you that your friend got a better value for his money. - He got a software CD with an automatic installer, software, documentation, videos, and utilities. You got a mini CD with a picture of a smiling apple, that had an old copy of ScanTool.net v1.13 software and a folder with FTDI drivers. - Your friend's scan tool came with a color illustrated Quick Start Guide. Yours came with no documentation at all. You obviously have enough technical knowledge for it not to matter, but it is a big deal to a lot of people. - We guarantee that ES5C will connect to any OBDII compliant vehicle (we have a custom built automated tester that verifies every protocol). OTOH the ELM327 clones' performance is unpredictable. Sometimes they pass our tests with flying colors, sometimes they connect only on one protocol, and sometimes they refuse to work at all (usually, bad crystal or caps). I have a sample here where the OBD transceivers are missing, and can give you a link to a forum thread where the ELM327 quit after 15 minutes and almost caught on fire. - In fact, I am willing to bet that as-configured, your tool will not connect to certain vehicles that ES5C will connect to without any problems. - We give customers 90 days to return the scan tool for a full refund, for any reason. - All of our scan tools including the ES5C are covered by an unmatched 3-year warranty. - ES5C is compatible with the latest version of ScanTool.net software, and works with OEM (=deeply discounted) versions of commercial diagnostic software. Of course, none of these reasons matter to folks for whom price is the overriding factor, and that's OK. Some of these good people end up asking for support on our forums, because the seller either can't or won't help them. If you're willing to take a chance, and are not easily embarrassed, more power to you. ;-) > So now this explains why all of a sudden chinese products have taken > on a very esteemed place in Mr Vitaliy's company. Mr Mike, I assure you that there is nothing "sudden" about it. We moved most of our production to China in 2006, and never looked back. Communication can sometimes pose a challenge, but with a little ingenuity and a stringent QC we are able to get quality that is on par with, or better, than what we got right here in the US. Unfortunately, the false perception resulting from xenophobia/racism/fear/whatever that products manufactured in China are necessarily inferior to American or European made goods, still persists. The good news is, "Assembled in China" on the back of the iPhone and many other great products, is helping shatter this perception. > When you can > "engineer" a label slap it onto a chinese counterfeit product and > start charging a 500% markup wow that is a business model I would like > to be in.... I *wish* our margins were that good. :) The beauty of a free market economy is that everybody is free to choose, nobody forces anybody to buy anything at gunpoint. Our customers (including your friend) have 90 days after placing the order, to change their mind. I believe that they buy our scan tools because they understand that the difference is more than just the label. Best regards, Vitaliy Maksimov ScanTool.net, LLC +1 623 582-2366 http://www.scantool.net -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist