> Bump. Ack. _________ Rushing: I saw that post. I have not seen any posts from you for some days. Th server MAY be having problems - I had noted that it seemed to be reoffering messages some days after they had been processed and seeming to list one message but deliver another. It's always uncertain whether this sort of thing is a genuine problem or a view of something that is misunderstood so appears to be doing something it isn't. Re your question. I'm probably not going to try to address that on list. I have said much on the general subject on list in the last few weeks and it tends to be either ignored or mis interpreted (not by you)(mostly :-) ). I'd be very happy to have this sort of dicussion with you and the admins in general offlist. I am not averse to any such proceedings being public per se - just a bit battle weary from the essentially unrelated flack that happens when things start being discussed at length. As I have noted, I have argued your case on your behalf on various occasions - not to say that I agree with your approach but in advocacy of what actions should be taken in various situations. FYI - I was not involved in placing you on moderation BUT I was given a chance to participate in the=A0discussion. For various reasons of circumstance it didn't happen. I still share the collective responsibility =A0- part of the "liability" that was mentioned recently. Agh. I lied. Onlist reply it is then :-). I think I gave a reasonable summary of my perspective recently, probably after the post you are now citing. I am not too too upset about you getting into some degree of argy bargy with those who like that sort of thing if it doesn't bother others. *BUT* it is wholly unacceptable for newcomers to be treated in the manner that you describe treating those in the workplace who you consider to be morons. Time after time after time after time after time (at least) you have been asked to leave the children alone, help them if you can and wish, ignore them if you think them unworthy of your talents, let other sat least try to make them a little welcome and established and valuable members of the community. NOBODY else wants to let people be lazy, for them to have free rides, for us to do their home work and assignments for them, for them to endlessly ask the list when gargoyle stands idle etc. Everyone wants the beginners to help themselves. BUT time after time after time recurring you absolutely demand to be entitled to beat them round the head, treat them as morons and drive them off if they will not give you the respect that you deserve (which is close to verbatim without actually looking your words up). I personally have no problem acknowledging that in many areas you are worthy of respect. that you are extremely capable. That you are of great assistance to many. But I'd personally not want to see you let loose in the beginners enclosure until you agree to simply leave them alone and let others with at least one empathy bone do the training. Letting you loose amongst the beginners is so far a sure guarantee that we will see bleeding newbies crawling for the exits. True morons will manage it without your very capable assistance. Only-apparent morons may shed their moronic shell and become vagued contributors. But only if you are on a leash OR if you simply agree in this area to leave people alone. That doesn't mean excessive fish waving would be allowed in other areas BUT the time from attack to conflagration is a little longer there. OK. There it is. On list. Where does that leave things? . =A0 R On 5 March 2010 03:30, Olin Lathrop wrote: > Bump. > > This was posted over a week ago. =A0I don't think it's unreasonable to ex= pect > some answer or at least a dialog from those in charge within that time. > > Another problem with moderation that was only lightly mentioned is the ti= me > lag between sending a message and when it gets distributed by the server. > This is usually a few hours, but can has been over a day in number of tim= es. > That has a severe detremental impact on the conversation flow. > > Then message also disappear completely for no apparent reason. =A0I sent = a few > messages last Friday morning, none of which were posted to the list. =A0T= hese > were simple replies to other people with nothing even the PC types would > find objectionable. =A0There was no bounce from the list server, no messa= ge > from a moderator, nothing. =A0Yes I checked the archives to make sure the > problem wasn't my receiving them from the server when they were posted to > the list. > > > Anyway, from Wednesday last week: > > Russell McMahon wrote: >> That option is, of course, logically available to anyone who wishes to >> avail themselves of it. >> >> Any time they are placed under moderation they can refrain from >> posting at all until the moderation is removed. Few are liable to have >> the ability to self manage themselves under this arrangement, but the >> option is there. > > Oh c'mon now Russell, surely you see how that doesn't address any of the > objections to moderation. =A0You're basically saying "if you don't like > moderation, then leave the list", which is a slap in the face especially = in > the context of trying to have a reasoned discussion about list policy. > > Unfortunately when people start saying "screw you", especially people in > power, the prospect for any remaining reasonable discussion vanishes. =A0= So > it's time to see what, if anything, is going to happen. =A0Admins, > > 1 - How, if at all, will list policy be changed? > > 2 - When am I going to get off moderation? =A0I've been on moderation for= 8 > months. =A0This was done out of the blue. =A0No particular incident was c= ited > nor was there mention of any rule I was supposed to have broken. =A0For 5 > months or so I took it and kept on as usual giving you guys the benefit of > the doubt. =A0I have been held guilty of causing others with their own fr= ee > will to possibly say bad things, even though I hadn't said any bad things > myself. =A0Eventually my patience ran out and for the last 3 months I have > refrained from adding value to the PIClist. =A0If this is going to contin= ue, > then I might as well unsubscribe completely. =A0I'm not saying that as a > threat or ultimatum, just a fact that under these conditions the PIClist > isn't worth it for me anymore. =A0I am trying to appeal to your sense of > justice and fairness. > > -- = http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist