Wearily dons still-warm from last time admin hat :-(. I have FAR better things to do than spending time on this. PLEASE take notice of the following. ALL: This thread is worthy of being shut down because of the abuses and off original topic posts buy a number of people. This topic comes close to political. It is NOT the sort of thing that can sensibly be discussed in this sort of forum. People's view are disparate and emotively based and this is NOT only a logical choice. If you want to keep this thread alive please stick to the 3 Google execs stuff. There is enough stupid comment on that topic to keep everyone happy without adding other things. Vitaliy: I asked you nicely to NOT use this thread to snipe at Bob. You ignored the request. Regardless of the merits, or not, of your feelings about Bob or his actions DO NOT USE THIS THREAD AS A PLATFORM TO DISCUSS THEM. (There was no "PLEASE" in that sentence and the capital letters indicate loud yelling and waving of arms down here in NZ.) If you must stir and cause trouble on list please do it in a separate thread with an appropriate title, post it in [OT] and keep the material relevant. Better still don't do it on list at all. DO NOT REPLY ON LIST TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: Offlist replies please if you think any questions worth replying to. Copying replies to PICList admins is welcomed and would be a good idea if you think that any reply is worthwhile. 1. Do you think the above requirement set is fair [ :-) ]. 2. You have suggested that Bob has been doing and saying underhand things wrt you since the last time you complained to the list admins about such things. I'm not aware that that is true. Can you substantiate this in any manner which should matter to a sensible person? (You qualify for that title much of the time)(I may resemble that). Offlist reply please if you think it's worth replying to. 3. From what I have read, and without going back and carefully comparing words and dates, it seems to me that you used this thread to reopen issues you have with Bob on a thread which was not sensibly related and that you are essentially provoking him and seeking to cause discord. Do you think that my impression is correct? Offlist reply please if you think it's worth replying to. 4. I carefully explained in the last day or so that, while individual admins ARE able to initiate moderation action as individuals they are NOT able to hide this action from other admins beyond the first time the moderated person posts a list message. (At that time ALL admins receive a message re the moderation). I also explained that such individual action is rare. BUT you are now essentially repeating your allegations. Did you read my original explanation? Did you believe me? Do you think that you are right and that I am wrong and that individual admins can and do exercise secret rights of moderation? [I may be wrong - I don't think I am]. Offlist reply please if you think it's worth replying to. 5. You have made a specific allegation about how admins acted when you complained to them a while ago. I was not aware that the admins' discussions on this matter were made public or provided to you. Do you have an information source that I am unaware of re admin discussions? Offlist reply please if you think it's worth replying to. 6. I consider myself your friend. I want the best for the list and for you. I dont thin k that you are doing yourself or the list much good by bringing up such matters in this manner. What do you think? Offlist reply please if you think it's worth replying to. You may feel that I am getting at you. I can understand that. I would normally write such things in private email. The views expressed by you and some others that things should be done in public is hereby met halfway - questions in public. Responses in private. People can see what motivates actions but any to and fro stays offlist. PLEASE. (Not really a "please". ) Aim: Maximise sum of list user satisfaction quotients. Not just SOME people's satisfaction quotients. Please help. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist