On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 1:02 AM, Vitaliy wrote: > M. Adam Davis wrote: >>> 2 - When am I going to get off moderation? >> >> When you >> - recognize and accept that your behavior is unacceptable >> - pledge to change >> - demonstrate such change for an undefined period of time wherein the >> moderators can see that you fully understand the point(s) of friction. > > "Undefined period of time"? I'm not a fan of Olin's style, but even I > consider this utterly unfair. I didn't provide more details because I wanted the message very short and to the point, and because there's no way to have a 'standardized' length of time for the moderation ban. In each case it would differ based on the circumstances. Olin has proven that he can play nice for 6 or more months at a time, but about 2-3 times a year he goes over the line. Now if he would just say, "sorry," and leave the topic alone I doubt that this infrequent infraction would be cause for ANY moderation. However he instead defends his position, intentionally draws many more people into it (fracturing a small portion of the list into those that support him and those that agree with the admins), and the issue goes on for two *MONTHS* without admin intervention (that's about how long it lasted when the de-facto admin decided to engage with Olin and "play the game" rather than simply banning him as usual). You can see this is exactly how it played out again - he tells someone that he could help them but won't due to the oppressive conditions, and encourages that user to "take it up with the community" which then blows all out into this current conflageration. He's moved to this tactic recently because he finds that it works - get someone else to "request that he be taken off moderation" because they feel his input is needed for their question. So for him I might suggest that a period of 1 year of "probation" would be sufficient, and if he tries to post a bad message again, then it would reset to one year from the most recent attempt. Others that start off their subscription by going over the line within a week, and despite offlist messages still violate the policy every 1 in 10 messages or about once a week might ultimately get put on moderation until they've gone 4+ weeks without an infraction. The nebulous length of time can only be bounded by "wherein the moderators can see that you fully understand the point(s) of friction" since it's impossible to enumerate all the types of list interaction and how they might map to a standardized system of lengths of time for moderation. Of course this means absolutely nothing due to the fact that I'm not (nor have ANY desire to be) an admin. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist