While I find merit and interest in a discussion of US costs of CFL's, seeing Vitaliy and Bob discussing what is and isn't a government subsidy immediately rings alarm bells. As much as I hate to see such interesting discussions termianted, may I please suggest that this stop now - as B&V, regardless of why, have shown a mutual inability to maintain such discussions stably. This is a no blame Y'all die situation, shoot everyone and move on, take no prisoners, makes life much simpler, nothing to see here, move along please, thankyou. Offlist abuse is welcomed :-) FWIW: I don't think NZ CFLs are subsidised. Prices have risen substantially from a year or so ago. In some areas carbon credits may be able to be claimed for CFL introduction at levels which substantially exceed the cost of the bulb. I can comment further on that, but it's probably most unwise to do so onlist. Maybe in OT? Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist