After suggestions on this list, I decided to test out KiCAD I am not finished checking it out, but this is my first report on it. Well, Saturday I played with it a couple of hours. I found a few things were not obvious, but the mini tutorial got me going. I was surprised that the default for taking the netlist into PCB had warnings turned off. For that reason, my little test circuit had a lot of no-connects that was not right. I spent most of my time trying to figure out what did not happen. Finally I discovered that the schematic 7805 part was using pin names, and the PCB decal I was using had pin numbers. At this time, I have not resolved that (I wanted to do other things on a Saturday as well) Other things I noticed, on a TO-220 Package, they label pin 1 opposite of what I think it should be. I am impressed with the 3D viewing of the PCB. I want to try and make some lib parts, but have not done that yet. I want to create the 3D features as well. One annoying thing I found so far, I could not determine what library a part is from once you bring it into your schematic. Selecting things is not intuitive. I need to play more and follow the tutorials more. I did get the auto-router to route about 5 nets for me. I have not touched the Gerber output or viewer yet. I think the auto-router is limited to 2 layers, and the PCB is limited to 16 layers. An alternative auto-router is available, web-based through the software. I have not tried that yet. At this time, I think this could be a viable tool for a hobbies or low volume designers like me. The 3D features would give some added value for presenting designs to my customers without looking like I am using a low cost or free software. For anyone on the front edge of technologies, or working every day on PCBs, this is not the right tool. One thing to note, it never crashed. Well, I know the real test is to make a PCB using it.. I don't have a project at this time, but I guess I could design that blinking thing I been wanting to invent for 10 years now.. Spare time, were have you gone!!! Merry Christmas Giles Honeycutt -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist