> ... and btw > they made or will make some ban against plasma here in Europe as far > as I know - oh yes, here it goes: > http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/giant-plasma-tvs-face-ban-in-battle-to-green-britain-1299665.html I assume that the banning and proscribing of various 'higher energy consumptiom' devices is a first step towards targeting the more intractable applications such as hot showers, water heating in general and cooking. Once we get rid of these really profligate transformers of energy we will be well on the way to saving the planet. Based on the truly underwhelming result of trying to shower with a 6 kW instant heat hot water system I imagine that a real man's (or Woman's) hot shower runs at 20 kW plus. For a decent entry level shower of 20 minutes duration that's about once a day that's about 7 kWh or a 24 hour equivalent of almost 300 Watt. You could run a rather large LCD monitor 24/7 on that, or have 300 of them on permanent approved standby. It may take a while to charge your Tesla battery at that rate. A kitchen stove with oven and two elements probably runs at over 10 kW. Cook a roast and you are probably in for more energy than the real person's [tm] shower. Such energy hogs will obviously have to go! The chairperson (title eludes me) for the IPCC has been quoted of late as saying that ice in drinks should be a thing of the past and that cutting down on meat consumption is a way to a lower energy lower carbon cleaner greener future. (Maybe all those terms didn't get used when meat and ice were talked about but they probably did). With such visionaries to guide or, increasingly, compell us on our way, It looks like our plasmaless, stoveless, showerless, meatless, iceless futures are looking bright. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist