Having lived for the past 15+ years in a state (Montana) where adverse driving conditions are a way of life for a large chunk of the year, I can say that I'm definitely familar with ABS vs non ABS. With a few exceptions, driving in snow/ice (and I guess normal driving as well) is all about retaining "adhesion" to the road surface. By adhesion I mean that the tire treads and the road surface are moving together (or I guess opposite to each other). Any skid/slide in any direction means you are unadhered to the road. I should also mention that I do use some words like stuck in their 'adhesive' meaning below - so be aware. The reason why remaining adhered to the road is important is that without that adhesion, you have no control of the vehicle. It goes where it wants to, no matter where you turn the wheels. it should also be noted that once adhesion is lost, it is quite hard to get it back. All of the rules such as "turn your wheel into the skid" and similar are all about trying to get the wheels re-adhered to the road. So, we're talking about braking here. In a Non-ABS vehicle, if you hit your brakes really hard (or even barely in some conditions), the tires lock up, and become unstuck from the road. As a result, you loose steering, and all control. It is really easy to get into a skid in an non-abs vehicle. Just hit the brakes on packed snow and ice. Your wheels will lock up, even briefly, and you'll end up in a ditch. A good driver can and will get used to how much pressure and/or in what manner to apply it and will actually simulate the action of an ABS system. With ABS, it's harder to loose adhesion. Yes, sometimes conditions are bad enough that even a slight tap will do it, and abs isn't fast enough on some vehicles to handle it. But for the most part, braking an ABS vehicle will always help. Yes, you can come unstuck doing things which involve lateral motion - yanking the wheel, or going around a corner too fast for conditions. But when it's braking which is involved, becoming unadhered is a lot less of a concern. About the only place where ABS hurts is where you are trying to stop in the shortest amount of distance. I'm not sure about dry-pavement, but I know that in sand and snow and other situations where a locked tire will tend to 'dig in', abs significantly increases stopping distances. This of course has to be balanced with retaining the ability to actually steer. In an ABS vehicle one should apply firm pressure and do what they can to steer around the obstacle. Contrast that with a non-abs system where one can either jam on the brakes, and hope they skid to a stop before the obstacle, or try to apply appropriate pressure to the brakes so that they can still steer around it. Personally, I'm much more comfortable in an ABS-equipped vehicle. It allows me to do less thinking in an emergency situation - in all situatitons the correct answer is hit the brakes and look for an escape path to drive around the problem area. -forrest -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist