> > Assuming you're including the vectored thrust stuff as part of > > "engine", then that's quite a significant part of the control of the > > flight envelope! > > It all kind of gets a bit silly though, as you could argue that all > > aircraft are an Italian design if you want to go back far enough ;) > Yes let's do that. Anything can be viewed as silly if you don't like it's face enough. While one version is "conventional", to consider the "vectored thrust stuff", which is supplied by Rolls Royce, as less than pivotal to the whole VTOL concept is missing the central point of the design. Even in a STOL mode the vectored thrust allows use of real world 'battlefield' strips such as random pieces of highway, and the true VTOL which it is capable of (which does rather eat into its fuel supply) allows you to use random pieces of eg forest. Removing loose ground cover prior to use is 'a good idea' [tm]. Anything that can fly, literally, backwards if it really really has to, is 'somewhat' different than about any other real-world jet fighter in existence (except its predecessors). Seeing a Harrier fall vertically and noisily into the sky from close range (as I've had the privilege of doing on one only occasion, here in NZ) is an exciting and impressive experience. For shipboard operation the STOL capability, with or without "ski jump" allows shorter decks and heavier payloads. Arguably it also allows arrestor-less recovery, but the fuel penalty may make this less attractive, and the article specifically notes the 'beefing up' of the C version mechanicals for carrier (arrestor?) use. And, if you really want to claim a single actually-flown source for all heavier than air craft powered craft (as opposed to various glider implementations which have a far longer and ultimately unknown provenance)(I'm not aware of any claimed practical Roman implementations) (although some later paper designs from the Vinci area are extant) then you'd ((very) arguably) have to say that all such derived from a New Zealand design, the mouldering remains of which reside in a glass cabinet about 10 kilometres from here. [Flame shields still up]. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist