First, I realise this perhaps might be either OT or TECH, but I thought it might have information value. I discovered today a new definition used by Chinese gaming machine designers for Neutral/Return - they call it NATURAL - I thought it was some sort of brand marking until I realised the PCB had Live ---- Natural markings around the mains in socket. Also the negative symbol they are using for an electrolytic capacitor resembles a washtub with a plunger inserted in it. I vaguely recall seeing something similar many moons ago, but I would suggest both these markings are very non standard these days. Colin -- cdb, 16/09/2009 -- colin@btech-online.co.uk -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist